Sideline Sessions

Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in, everybody, to another episode of Sideline Sessions here on the Be Podcast Network. Today, it is my pleasure to be joined by my guest Brooke Knight. Brooke is the head coach of the Corvallis Knights of the West Coast [00:01:00] Baseball League, which is a summer wood bat league for collegiate players, and he's also the CEO of Knight Financial Home Loans.

Brooke is the most successful manager in West Coast league history, having skippered the Knights to 10 championships in 15 years, including the last seven consecutive, he's been coach of the year eight times, and he also managed the Perth heat of the Australian baseball league. That's a winter league for professionals from all around the world to back titles in 2011 and 12.

Brooke, welcome to the show.

Brooke Knight: Hey, thanks for having me, Ross. Appreciate it.

Ross Romano: So what I wanted to ask you, so on this show we talked to coaches and athletes from all different kinds of sports, right? And of course there's a lot of lessons that are similar and they kind of go across the board as far as relating to athletes and performance and there's some things that are going to be sports specific.

baseball being very particular, I think, in the skills and competencies of what makes a good manager. So I wanted to get your perspective on there first, in your [00:02:00] mind, when you think about what specifically makes a good baseball manager you know, and is really a particular, and particularly, I think, as a manager, right, versus you know, a particular position coach, what are some of the things that come to mind for you?

Brooke Knight: I

think the, probably the most challenging part and, but yet hopefully executionable is the ability to be really consistent, you know, and relentlessly consistent to the point where You know your mood is even keeled your approach is even keeled. It doesn't mean we're not all allowed to have those moments of emotion, and the players also need to see that, the real you behind you.

But for the most part, I think showing up at the yard every day, no matter how good, bad, or indifferent our own personal day or life has been at that moment, showing up with with great energy you know, putting the rest of the day on the shelf and being laser focused [00:03:00] on things. on your team and kind of what those expectations are with really great energy.

I mean, a lot of times that's a choice, right? It's a choice to get out of bed early. It's a choice to get to the gym. And it's a choice when you're managing people to show up consistent. (ad here)

Ross Romano: Yeah, I don't think it's not a coincidence, right, that The coach, the head coach in baseball is called the manager because it's so many of the things that make one successful in that position are really closely connected to what makes someone a successful manager in a different type of organization, you know, a school principal, a, you know, Boss at some other kind of company, right?

That the fact that it's a everyday type of sport, right? It's people spending a lot of time around one another. It is, you know, solving challenges and the normal ups and downs that aren't always. easily or quickly fixable. You know, it's that patience, the perseverance, the steadiness, [00:04:00] consistency, like you said the constancy of saying, okay, when I show up as somebody who's part of this team I need to walk into an environment and know what I'm getting.

And if I'm a team member and I walk in and one day the, you know, the coach is having a bad day and it's. Pure chaos, right? And the other day, everybody's in a good mood or things like that. I can't be at my best because I have things I'm going through. I need to trust the environment. So there's so much there that I'm sure will resonate with folks who are listening, whether they're involved in this sport, particularly, or in other types of environments where they're thinking about either themselves or their supervisor, right?

And the things that they respond to. And in your case, you did, Come to coaching after having a playing career. You played in college and then at the professional levels as well. How important do you believe it was to [00:05:00] you to what you were able to learn about coaching or get into coaching or, you know, how you've been able to succeed as a coach was the playing career that you had,

Brooke Knight: Well, I think it was really important. And obviously Being fortunate enough to be behind or underneath or follow the right mentors and leaders, you know, was a big deal for me, and I could be a parent or a teacher, and I was really blessed on all fronts, but, you know, my American Legion coach and my college baseball coach.

I'm still very close with both of those guys. They're both 84, 85 years old. One lives in Vancouver, Washington. One is in Corvallis, Oregon, which is where my office is. And I sit today. Those guys were a huge impact for me and they're different management styles but the ability to stay close with them through over the years and have those pillars to lean on, you know, but probably the last three to five years has been more of just a friendship, but they're still not afraid to, you know, ask me how things are going and [00:06:00] couple that with if they happen to be at the game, hey, what do you got going here? You know, so, it's great. It's great. There's a lot of love and transparency with those relationships.

And that's where I learned as a player was, you know, I think that's where that coaching teaching piece is. Why we all do it, right? I mean, we do it generally, it's not for you know, monetary rewards it, there, there's, there can be at the highest levels, but nearly all of us really do it because we have a love for the sport, we have a love for the kids, it keeps us young, we want to give back it inspires us, it gets us up in the morning, and those are the reasons and those relationships that, that really evolve and carry on for years to come to help those, you.

same kids as they become young adults. Should they need it or not? Some don't, but that's where the really fun value is, you know, the, you've got the time with them during the season, but the years that precede that are pretty cool. (ad here)

Ross Romano: Are there any specific lessons that [00:07:00] really, you know, are seared into your brain that you picked up from your coaches or mentors?

Brooke Knight: Well, Dick McClain who was the American Legion coach and head of the NWAC in the Northwest for 15 years, Dick Dick taught me, you know, there are 18 guys on a, on an American Legion team at that time. They probably still have that rule. I loved about him was he was gruff at times, but you know, he had this art of, Even if you were the 16th, 17th, 18th player on that roster, you know, I played, let's see, three years in Legion Ball, then I coached with Dick for two or three years as well, after my pro ball stuff, and which was limited.

But He basically made sure that the 18th guy never felt like he was the 18th guy. He never felt inferior. He wasn't one foot out the door. The 17th guy clearly was not. He did a really nice job of paying attention to everybody and making sure that everybody felt valued. And [00:08:00] I actually have that discussion with my team.

I had it probably six weeks ago with this team we just finished up with about, Hey, you know, we all have our own goals as a management crew from our coaching staff perspective, we, my goal is to number one, get us to the playoffs because once you get there it's like hit and miss big swing, big pitch, big play.

That's really, you know, the games are for the players, but the other goal is to make sure that everybody feels like they got better, you know, on and off the field, but that they were truly. valued the whole time. Like, did we pay attention? Were we saying hello? Were we asking you how your day was? Were we doing those things?

And I hope we've, you know, committed to that and demonstrated that's important to us. There's a funny story from a guy that was in, in the minor league system with the A's. He's older now and he was kind of a Southern California baseball don another guy I really trust. And he said there was this there was this moment in time, we'll call it, in the nineties where This minor league pitching staff started counting the days and they [00:09:00] had it up in the bullpen that they hadn't spoken to their manager.

And there were some guys going on like 23 days, some guys were on 42 days, you know, in a minor league season. And so he said when he had heard that story, when he was with the Oakland A's in their system managing as well, he said, I committed to never letting more than 48 hours go by without at least stopping to say hello to every guy.

Because when you've got 30, 35 guys, it is not easy. I don't care if you have three, three to five hours together at the yard. So that to me is something I've really tried to remember as a lesson. Pay attention to everybody. And that coupled with Coach McClain's lesson early on was like, Hey you don't have, this is not about stroking or coddling guys at all.

This is about paying attention as if you have. 28 children, and I only have one, but, you know, I can't imagine you could love one more than the other, and that's our job. Performance is a totally separate beast. Some of it is a blessing, some of it's worked on most of the time it's both. [00:10:00] But, those guys truly I mean, if we can achieve that, where they believe and understand that, You know what, I may not have self awareness to where I'm at personally as a player yet, but I still know this coaching staff truly cares about me, it's not just BS, then I think we've got a real chance to develop that individual, hence hopefully be a better collective team.

Ross Romano: Yeah, absolutely. Was there a particular time that you can recall where you really started to become serious about being interested in coaching and to... You know, really find a path toward doing that.

Brooke Knight: I'd always felt like as a player, you know, I was primarily a catcher, played some third base in high school and college at Oregon State. I mean, It was just, I was undersized. And I'm not 6'5 right, you know, today. So that hasn't changed. But I, you know, it was I wasn't supremely gifted.

I had some you know, basic skills that got me by, but I mean, I had to [00:11:00] find other ways to get on the field as a player, you know, through attitude and effort, you know, sounds cliche, but and really, , sport competency. I mean, baseball is one of those where. You, you can create, potentially create a little bit of an advantage if you do pay attention all the time and you do look for ways to take advantage of opportunities in the opposition.

For me, it was it was probably always a little bit of trying to lead on the field as a quarterback in high school or a catcher. And even at Oregon State a little bit, you know, we had plenty of guys there that were qualified to lead, but, yeah, there wasn't. I always kind of felt like I was probably going to coach.

My degree is in education with a minor in health. And then when I had the opportunity to go play in Australia after my brief pro ball stint I, you know, I was, that was a player manager position in Perth and the club league at South Perth. And that was really fun and interesting. I was Not even 24 years old and I got there and now I'm playing on the same team I'm managing.

I've got guys between the [00:12:00] ages of 16 and 38. It's kind of a rec type league with like a D3 talent level. But they're serious and there's some pretty good players on there too. And then I'm, you know, hit, right myself into the four hole and trying to find a way to get on base and give signs, it's double in the gap.

I'm giving signs from second base, kind of the old Pete Rose thing. So it was a lot to bite off. But I was pretty clinical at that point as a young person. I mean, definitely regimented and structured and probably too much for that leak to be honest, but yeah, it was that was kind of the moment I'm like, okay, this is going This is good.

I love this. I just got done coaching the Legion ball with Dick and yeah, I thought, you know, that my, my goal was to always be a college coach. But then when I got back and got married and had a child that changed, got into sales, got into finance after that. So, it's okay. I think I've, I think I've kind of.

Been really fortunate to have the best of both worlds. I clearly could have gone that direction, but I kind of [00:13:00] get my fix during the summer with these guys and over in Australia.

Ross Romano: I'm sure there's some, you know, even from that experience back then player coaching in, in, you know, in Australia, and then, of course going back there later on, but some particular lessons... learned about what you may want to achieve as a coach, given that you know, many of our listeners may not know too much about the sporting landscape in Australia, but it's a country with a population about 10 percent of the size of the U S but a sporting mad culture, right?

Very interested in sports, but, you know, baseball, while it has a long history there, not at the top of the, not at the top of the ecosystem most people in the country don't know too much about it. They know what it is, but they're not super familiar with what's happening in this.

And, you have a lot of [00:14:00] guys there, right, playing in these kind of, you know, semi pro leagues who have their day jobs and their other things, and they're, I mean, playing truly for just love of the game. It's not the glamour sport in their country, it's not something that they're, you know, making a lot of money off of or anything, but they just love it.

And they're competitive, and, you know, there's something to be learned, of course, by coaching. Those types of athletes and understanding, okay, what drives them what's motivating them to want to do this thing that you know, nobody else around them is probably pushing them to do it. Right. They're just out there because they really want to see what they could do.

Brooke Knight: Yeah, exactly. I mean, your younger guys are probably still aspiring to, you know, make the ABL roster or maybe play college baseball here in the States. Junior college or D3 or maybe even a D1 like Bazzana at Oregon State. You know, you've got [00:15:00] those Those kids. And then you've got a lot of guys who've already done that.

You know, they played college ball in the States. They played a little minor league ball for a couple of years and got released. And yeah, they've got full time jobs, a wife, three kids. They're scrambling from work in their suit and tie or their bricky stuff. And they're shooting over to the field at 5 30 and changing and strapping it on a Tuesday night to try to get some hacks in and some ground balls.

And then Thursday night, same thing. And maybe you play a game or two on the weekend And it becomes like a very communal thing with your family. And I mean, it's a huge sacrifice for the missus and for the kids to be like six months, you're going to be doing this for six months. And they actually pay a player fee.

That generally goes to the import or two that these clubs will obviously fly in and house and it's really unique. So you're right. It is truly for the camaraderie and the love of the game and Obviously, there's a guy or two on each one of those clubs that generally does play on the pro team in each respective city but yeah, I mean They [00:16:00] love it and shoot some of those guys, as you know, play till 35, 36, 37, if they're still in, in good nick and good shape.

So yeah, it's it's really a cool, you know, and Australians are much better at their lifetime fitness than we are as here in the States. I mean, it's not even close, but yeah that, it's a special deal. That's where the baseball community in Australia tends to be small, like you said, it's definitely second hand in cricket and rugby and and footy, but but it's still a pretty neat community, too.

Ross Romano: yeah, absolutely. So, you know, and then staying there, right? So, obviously, years later, after that initial experience, you've gone back and now for, you know, a number of years coached in the Australian Baseball League, which I introduced. It's a, you know, a winter league, an off season league for professionals around the world.

Many of the players that have played in that league have become all stars at the Major League Baseball level here in the U. S. Or had nice careers here. [00:17:00] Players from Korea, Japan Taiwan. You know, and so on. So players that play all around the world. And you know, and also same in the West Coast League, right?

Summer League for collegiate players. So both of these are what are called quote unquote off season leagues. So you have a team of players coming together from all over the place and playing for however many months. In those type of environments in particular. What separates, you know, the good team from a great team?

At the introduction, even in a brief intro, I listed out, I think, 12 different championship teams that you managed, right? So obviously, you've had a lot of success, but it's, you know, one, with rosters that are turning over. It's a lot of different players, and it's players that haven't been together forever or haven't necessarily even known each other for a long time.

So what does it take to, I mean, to really turn that collection of individuals into a team in a short amount of time and then to [00:18:00] turn them into a successful team?

Brooke Knight: Yeah, I think, you know, in Australia they have a generally with each franchise or each city, each team, you know, almost half your club is back, because generally your Aussies are kind of staying with their club, or at least a third. You know, it's different in the West Coast League where we've got Four to five guys out of, you know, 30 to 35 guys that might return.

So we have mostly everybody's turned over, but it is nice to have those four to five who've kind of been through it, maybe a couple of arms, couple of position guys who can help these new guys kind of relate to, you know, the methodology of the organization. It could be just personality stuff and how, you know, all of us as coaches are a little bit different.

Coach Nags, coach Kearns, coach you and myself. You know, and so, I think, you know, it's, it, there's really not, it's funny when I've been asked that before I don't have a finite answer for something like that. I think, as a coaching staff, [00:19:00] Well, shoot, you know, that is important, right? If you roll that over too, and we have to swap out a couple of bodies and faces and personalities, then we're going to have to figure out who we are as a leadership group to, to get on the same page and be the best we can be in each of our respective lanes.

We're now on maybe year three, I think, with that crew. I think Beau's been there three and Eddie four and Uni five or six. So, so we've got a little bit of consistency. So that. That helps for sure. Um, In kind of the recent years. And then, you know, we know what our expectations are as an organization. We know as a coaching staff, you know, what we're going to do with off field challenges.

We know what we're going to do with. on field challenges. We're going to communicate really well with each other and maybe Uni's having a challenge with an arm, whether it be a personality conflict or an effort challenge or whatever. And he's going to let me know, Hey, Skip, here's what we got going.

Here's what I did. I wanted you to know. Do you want to handle it any [00:20:00] differently? Those types of things. So, that communication piece is uber transparent within the coaching staff. I personally believe, and I, it's probably a little crass, but that is the greatest failure of the Division I coaching staffs I've faced.

been privy to all really good guys. And I say guys, not gals, because I don't know any Division One gals in baseball, but I'm sure this is synonymous across the board that while they're great people and they're really good at their jobs it's they don't have, they have a little bit of an absence of trust within the staff, and they can't be candid with each other, or you just can't approach the skipper, or, you know, we can't rock the boat, man, this job's super important to me, I'd rather be a yes man or a yes woman than a why are we doing it this way person.

But with, I hope with us, I've always tried to really promote, and I tried in Australia too, like, Yes, I've got my own principles. Yes, I can be convicted. Yes, I can be strong. But [00:21:00] if I don't know where we're at as a staff And everybody's doesn't feel the ability to speak freely and have open quality conflict.

We're not going to be as good as we need to be. We will not make the very best decision we can make. I mean, we've got a lot of brain power in that club, in that coach's locker room. And to not get to that sometimes would be a complete failure, I think, and I can look back on so many situations, even in the last few years, where somebody might have said, What do you got here?

Why don't we try this? And I'm like, Yeah, why haven't we done that? Really good point. So there can't be fear on the staff, I think, so you can actually deliver and when the players Come in. They see that and feel it. I mean, do not think that if there's any division or discontent on a coaching staff that your players don't know it.

We have body language, you know, communication just like they do. They can see it. They can feel it. Just one snide comment can fracture that little glass hummingbird. That is the [00:22:00] value of your leadership team. And we guard that with our lives. I mean, it is uber important. And so we have that to kind of drill down.

And then the last piece is, you know, you've either got to have two or three, you can have one really exceptional one, but hopefully you have two or three pretty good leaders. And on a baseball team, you'd like to have a strong personality on your pitching staff. You'd like to have a strong personality on the position, with the position player group.

Catch your middle infielder would be great. It doesn't have to be. If you get two or three of those that are already kind of self made, or have been leaders throughout you really give yourself a chance. We've had in the last... Well, let's just shorten it up. In the last six years, I think at least two of those clubs didn't really have a finite leader.

This last year's summer, we had a couple that really wanted to, and so we tried to help foster that. And then, you know, I can think of another club where nobody really wanted to step up. Bunch of great guys. Great [00:23:00] dudes. But, I think fostering that leadership, talking about that with your team. Developing those guys so when they get back to their respective schools, they can take that jump as a human being, as a leader on their teams reminding them that leadership is lonely, it's nomadic, it's not always likable, and you, there's an art to it, but you have to be courageous and be willing to, Kind of put yourself out there with your peers and teammates, which is really hard to do.

18 to 22 years old, male or female it's brutal. I mean, it's hard as adults, right? So, so just encouraging that and talking about it, I think really helps us finally define who we are. Because players then start to self police. Those guys, you know, hang out together they win together, they, they lose together, and it helps get through the grind of, you know, a baseball season, which is a lot of baseball, a lot of games.

Ross Romano: Yeah. And I mean, how do you knowing the [00:24:00] critical importance of having player leaders on a team, right? That it can't all come from the coaching staff, but when you're in a situation where... You know, you're needing to either foster some leadership or empower some leaders, you know, we've probably all seen teams of eight year olds where there's like a natural leader and then teams of, you know, college or professional level where there's like, nobody's really doing it and particularly, I mean, this is a great challenge, but also a great opportunity to learn how to do it in, you know, on teams where the incentive, you know, structure is not necessarily obvious for buying in to that type of leadership or buying into even the team philosophy, right?

There, you know, at different levels and different types of teams and leagues where players are wanting to showcase themselves for an opportunity at [00:25:00] some other level or whatever, you know, and they're incentivized more to just worry about themselves and focus on their own thing versus saying, okay, we have to be a good teammate here and what do we need to do to win and support one another and all of those things makes it even more challenging for that one who wants to be the vocal leader where and say, We have to all kind of get on the same page here.

But that is an important part of coaching it at any level, right? Youth on up, that there's certain things that are just best accomplished when the players are the ones, you know, leading themselves.

Brooke Knight: Absolutely. And again, like I said, you can be really lucky and those guys can, you can recruit those type of guys, I guess, in college or sign those type of guys, drop those type of guys in a professional organization. But we. We kind of get what we get sometimes and, but a little bump, a little nudge, a little chat with those guys who are kind of on the cusp of wanting to [00:26:00] do it and not quite knowing how to do it can be really valuable.

And, you know, I create a lot of metaphors and analogies for the business world. I mean, do you want to continually, you know, work for the man or do you want to be the man or woman, right? The disparagement in A ball and the big leagues and the disparagement and being a West Coast VP and a CEO of.

Chase Bank are Relatively large, right? So, so it's if we can create as many leaders as possible. So when they leave our experience, they can go back again to their schools in the fall and then graduate and get on with their lives. And it doesn't mean they have to make a lot of money. I'm just saying, hopefully position themselves to do something they love to do that brings them happiness and is maybe a leadership I appreciate it.

Whether they're monetary rewards or not, something they could be really good at and impact others lives. And, you know, again, we talk about that a lot too, like how lucky, not that you haven't earned the right to be [00:27:00] here, not that you haven't worked your tail off and sacrificed time with your friends because you had practice every day or travel ball things on the weekends or, what a wonderful problem to have that you were talented enough and your parents provided the time and potentially the money for you to be positioned to work on your craft and now here you are but the ability to really truly dig down to be grateful for that is step one.

And step two is, guess what comes with that? Now you have a responsibility too. And the responsibility is that you guys are around some of the very best peers, which are your teammates. Very best student athletes on the planet. I don't care if it's Stanford, Oregon State, George Fox, Linfield, or Linn Benton Community College, just in our area.

You can still gain so much value from that. And now here's your responsibility. Like, you are the next leaders, whether you like it or [00:28:00] not, you are best positioned to lead a city as mayor, to lead a company, to lead a school as the principal, or whatever that might be. You, this is you. So if you want to kind of Be the best landscaper on the planet, that's okay, or the best electrician, that's okay too but you might still want to be in a position where you've learned some skills to run your own company, okay?

So that, that's that's our goal. That's what I love seeing on LinkedIn, and these texts I get, or Facebook, or Insta, or whatever, phone calls seeing these guys. Reach out or I just see him and sometimes I can't say hi to everybody and just being like, I'll just send that hell. Yeah, way to go. You know, you're running enterprises, Southern California market.

That is so cool. But that so that part is is really cool to watch these guys. Hopefully take some of the skills they've acquired along the way.

Ross Romano: You know, along those [00:29:00] lines and the variety of skills that lead to success, right, you've seen, coached, probably played with a wide range of athletes as far as what their ultimate achievement was in, in the sport, right? From guys who went on to become not only professionals, but. level players at the highest levels of sport to others who never played professionally at all.

And obviously there's a variety of physical attributes and, you know, pure talent and all of that, that goes into that. But there's also a lot of other things. What have you observed as far as. The separating factors between, you know, the good and the great athlete and even if kind of good to great is a hard those are hard terms to define in this case, between those who reach and even maybe exceed [00:30:00] their on paper potential, right?

And those who have all the talent, but you realize, well, they never quite. They never quite got there.

Brooke Knight: Yeah, I think there's a couple of things that play into that. Obviously, you've got to generally have some gifts, some skills, but aside from that there is a true confidence and conviction in themselves. And when that couples with some pretty darn good natural talent you've got a shot, right?

They generally are relatively coachable, not always, They might be so convicted and so darn talented that it takes them a while to learn how to be coachable along the way, but I think, you know, Pete's recent book, Pete Hall, a friend of mine, he writes about this Dunigan Kruger effect where a lot of these people, and I was probably one of these athletes, and thank goodness I was because it probably saved my bacon and gave me a few more opportunities, but, you know.

You know, really just telling yourself something over [00:31:00] and over again and starting to believe it and and really believing that they're a little bit better or they can be a little bit better than they currently are, you know, and that repetitive talk and that's our goal as coaches too.

I mean, I think our job without again, painting rosy pictures is with any athlete, If you can, without cutting them off at the knees, Woody Hayes style, and that was, you know, that was definitely effective in those days. But for us these days, I would say, hey, if we can get our players to think they're a little bit better than they believe they are, or we actually know that they are, we've done a hell of a job.

Because If we want to be uber candid with the player, here's exactly where you're at. Well, I don't think we're setting them up to kind of get to that next step. So I think the goal is to give them a little bit of life, give them a little bit of hope, give them a little bit of, hey, what does that look like if you're here?

Why can't you get here? [00:32:00] What does that smell like? What does that taste like? Why can't you get here? I believe you can, if you believe it as much as I do, you know, I think you've got a shot, right? And so, While mom and dad may have said that it can, it may not be as meaningful. They don't have the resume that a coach would have.

Right. And so, yeah, I mean, for me that the difference tends to be guys like a Travis Bazan is a great example who really, I mean, deeply believes in himself and always has. He doesn't second guess. He's his ability to take the next step. He's uber coachable. And I've had a lot of these guys along the way when I look back, but they are all very different personalities and Travis, because it's current is, is a really good example of a guy that, I mean, knew he's a little undersized, but he can really, but really he's not, he's probably five, 11, six foot for his position, he'll be fine. You know, the Hannigars, the Boids [00:33:00] the Andreesses, I look back and a lot of those guys, Madrigal, Rutchman, it's just like, they all, I mean, Mad Dog and Rutch absolutely believed in themselves. Now, sure, again, they were talented, but you can't say that, you can say Mad was... Supremely talented. You can't say he didn't absolutely believe in himself at 5'7, buck 46, showing up for a summer game before he even got to Oregon State.

I mean, the dude came in and like, our guy threw three balls, Mad Dog literally sprinted onto the field after, I mean, we're, we've thrown our warm up pitches. jams his uniform in, a guy throws three balls to start the game, and I'm just thinking, oh my gosh, we're going to have to use the visit. Well, guess what?

We didn't have to because our high school incoming freshman at Oregon State called time. I don't know what he said to the pitcher. And just calmed him down. Probably something like, Hey dude, throw it over the plate. I got you. I'm here now.

Ross Romano: Right.

Brooke Knight: So, I mean, super cool stuff like that. You see with those types of personalities along the way, but [00:34:00] the objective is how do you get the fringy guys to also believe that, like truly believe it, not smoke and mirrors really believe they can do it.

And that's the big challenge, right?

Ross Romano: Right. And there's also something that, that stands out to me, and this is true in any field, and it relates to you know, any kind of job that I think one of the top qualifications nobody will readily maybe admit this typically, but one of the top things that someone is thinking about when they're interviewing a potential person to join their team is, you know, Do I want to spend time around this person, right?

Um, Can they do the job? Do they have the skills? Whatever. But if I'm going to be spending all, is this somebody I want to be around? Um, Similar thing, well, in any field, but in the sports is being the type of person that people want to see succeed, like beyond just the normal giving, because you'll give yourself [00:35:00] opportunities, right?

If you're somebody that nobody likes and you're not, you know, you don't get along with people, you know, even if you're super talented, you'll limit your opportunities because there's not a lot of people that want to go out of their way to give you that second chance or that little extra help or that little extra, you know, that second look kind of thing versus I, you know, and Having spent a lot of time around athletes myself and you have, you know, you can think of those guys who they went through periods of struggle, but because they were that type of person that everybody really wanted to see succeed, it was alright, let's see, let's give them another chance or there's players who, you know, get traded a lot from team to team and you look and you say, well, they're, you know, their numbers don't necessarily show that they should be in such demand, but it's because there's somebody that sees something and says, well, we want that person in our locker room, in our clubhouse, right?

And [00:36:00] again, all of that is understanding that because even the very best of the best. In a sport as competitive as these sports are, there are going to be times when you're not doing so well, there's going to be times where you go from top prospect to this guy, his career might not last much longer.

And it's, you know, are you not only Can you play? But yeah what intangibles do you bring? Does your presence on a team make it greater than the sum of its parts because you help bring out more in your teammates or because you're also, I think, thoughtful about your own self and your own approach, right?

Not necessarily losing confidence, but also not having just arrogance. You're not understanding where you might need to improve or do a little better or put in that extra work or ask for help and all those kind of things.[00:37:00] But certainly, yeah,

Brooke Knight: Yeah, we and we do talk about that, and in fact it, we probably went through that a little bit this last summer, but we've had a few clubs where, well, and it's a chat we always have. You're either adding to the energy or you usurping the energy period. There's rarely an in between.

And if there is, it's a temporary moment in time. Right. It's the exception. So we. When you have that, and you've got a body or two that, it could just be immaturity, most of the time that's what it is for us, like, they are good kids, and they're just trying to find their way, and we do try to give them a little longer rope, and, but also love, and that love sometimes could come in the form of tougher love, there are consequences, and then we stay with it for a while, and then you go, hey maybe we've got to make this very tough decision.

It's not easy, but it's addition by subtraction because it doesn't take more than one, honestly. And if you start with one, you know what the next, problem is, and that's a [00:38:00] real problem. And I have had it happen once in my career, not so long ago, and I did a really poor job not. making decisions on that.

And every other time I've done a pretty good job, or we have as a coaching staff making a decision that, you know, what doesn't mean it's a bad person doesn't mean it's a bad athlete. It just means that unwillingness to row the same direction, that unwillingness to get on board and truly be a great teammate.

Or be a great, be coachable whatever it might be and it doesn't mean we have to agree on everything in a line, but especially at the pro level, it becomes, or we'll call it the hybrid pro level, and the ABL it's a little different, but But you're in a position where, you know, if you think that you can change that behavior, if it's too far down the track, down the road, it's not going to happen.

It's just not either the right moment for that individual. The core values don't align. Maybe there's a complete failure on the leadership part, which in that case would be me and our [00:39:00] coaching staff. That could happen. That could be the case too. I'm not saying it's always player centric by any means.

It just means that there's not a connection. And if you aren't willing to make that decision for the collective whole it can be costly. And so I think we try to recognize that. And I think I would encourage all young coaches and teachers. I know that a lot of people are handcuffed by maybe the school district or call it the NCAA.

We've got a little bit more freedom, fortunately. At our level to, to make those tougher decisions, but at the end of the day, most of the time, I think both parties kind of acknowledge that this just isn't going to work. I've never really, we've rarely ever had a, probably in 15 seasons made that decision four or five times through the course of a season.

And I don't really ever remember somebody really pushing back too hard saying, hey, you know, nope I'm good at that makes sense to me type thing, but you can't allow that cancer to foster inside of a clubhouse, a locker room whatever it may be, it can be Costa you won't you, [00:40:00] you will, if you win and you become champions at the end of the season.

It is definitely the exception and not the rule. I mean, it is it would be an unusual fluky moment. So we've gotta keep that part really clean. Always. It's fragile. (ad here)

Ross Romano: right. And, you know, and so much of that like saying, right, there's a foundation of relationships, certainly the relationships between coaches, having, you know, everybody being on the same page, not having those fractures and things, but the relationships you have to develop with your athletes, because all of the things that we've Talked about in the intro here and the past and the titles and all that kind of stuff.

As soon as the athletes get into the room with the coach, they don't care about any of that stuff, right? They care about the person they see in front of them. What do I think of them? How are they relating to me? And how are they helping me and showing me that they're invested in my [00:41:00] success, right? All that other stuff. Doesn't matter. Anyway you know, that's the stuff, you know, if you're thinking about maybe the collegiate level or even, you know, maybe selective enrolled in high school or something, you know, those are things that might. interests and attract people to want to come there. But once they're there, it's okay.

Now show me what you have, show me that you care, show me. And you know, that's the piece. Is there anything additional to add there about the accountability, right? That, that coaches have went to. Make sure that you really are putting the effort into developing those relationships and making it happen.

Brooke Knight: Yeah. I mean, I mean, for us in particular, maybe because of the environment of baseball. Being kind of an individual sport played in a, on a collective team and downtime, we'll call it where you've. Punched out, strike three or you've thrown ball four, there's [00:42:00] that little window of time that both for the individual to kind of gather themselves or for the environment to either consume somebody Or not, I mean, we end up talking a lot about, from an accountability perspective, body language, because as soon as you said that, it's all I could think about was, you know, the pitcher on the mound who does a really poor job at their body language.

It's a young arm. They're emotional and you can clearly, they're It's that basically I tell these guys, you know, your body language is screaming so loud at me and your teammates and the fans that we can't actually hear what you're saying, you know, so it's a big deal and it could just be getting removed from the game and maybe a little head shake.

They might have just been frustrated with themselves, not the fact that they were moved. Most of the time, these guys might just be angry with themselves but just trying to teach them those little things. Hey, that's fine. I get it, but everybody watching the game thinks that you're disenchanted that you were pulled after fall 17, right?

So no, [00:43:00] we're saving you from yourself and now you can go chill out and we'll get back to work later today or tomorrow, but it could be dugout stuff. So I think accountability is Man, if you can get a bunch of guys to really do a great job with their body language guys or gals in any sport you are winning the deal because it eliminates it eliminates that communication and rarely in adverse moments is body language positive, right?

It's always going to be negative. And that includes for Skip, , you know, and the coaching staff. I mean, I really try to be cognizant and always have, and it doesn't mean I've always. done a good job by any means, but of my own body language, because I can feel it. I mean, I'm right here, umpire or game, and I can feel the dugout.

If I'm in the third base dugout or vice versa, first base dugout, you know, you can feel those guys staring at you. You don't know who's looking, you don't have time. And I really am not focused on that. I'm just saying that. [00:44:00] They're always paying attention and somebody's always watching. You tell your players somebody's always watching from the stands, that's darn near the truth.

And as a coach or a mentor or an assistant coach or pitching coach, your players are always watching. So your body language with another player, your body language with a fellow staff member, a coach, I mean it's crucial. all this time to build this foundation, build this network of trust and love and crack it and destroy it in one or two moments.

And so, I guess, you know, no different than our personal relationships. And while it sounds a little bit unforgiving, it's just reality. That's just the way it is. It's never going to change. And so, so we do have to guard that. And if we really have a moment where I was super disenchanted with a assistant coach, which would be really rare because hopefully we've set it up, but almost every time.

And again, I've had a failure or two, no question. But I've had a chance to pull them in, [00:45:00] talk about it. Here's, Maybe how we could have handled that. That might have been a little extreme, or that wasn't quite enough, and we get it done behind closed doors. And we're good. So yeah, anyway, from an accountability perspective, I think the first thing that comes to my mind is preaching body language demonstrating great body language, and then holding your player group accountable.

Ross Romano: Yeah. I mean, and those are just important life lessons and life skills, right? You learn that when you are out there on the field, it's, you know, you pretty quickly kind of figure out and learn that there's always somebody watching you no matter what you're doing, but that's true in an office.

It's true if anybody, you know, anybody who has kids knows that, right? Kids are always looking at what you're doing. And so it's being mindful of, The way you represent yourself and the way that you want other people to see you and the you know, the unintentional messages that you don't want to send.

[00:46:00] And it's a good, you know, a good lesson to learn. And of course. You know, sometimes it's also obscuring, you know, hiding your true feelings when you're just really frustrated and saying, okay, I gotta hold this together. Brooke, as we're kind of wrapping up here's my final question for you.

How do you stay motivated? You know, you've been doing this for quite a while now, had a lot of success. What. What do you do to keep yourself driven to, you know, keep achieving and keep, you know, keep supporting athletes?

Brooke Knight: Well, I mean, I think I'm fortunate enough at this point where it's who I've always been as far as the habits that I have today, again, doesn't mean I'm not still working on things personally, but I love the competitive piece. I love a new group of. where we can get to know, create those [00:47:00] relationships, get to know each other and try to find ways to develop, you know, a team and that collective culture, a collective ego versus, you know, individual jazz.

So, I'm really lucky to be in the environment I have in Corvallis with Dan Siegel and the Knights and the venue we play at and just our organization as a whole. It's, you know, I don't think the grass is greener. I think it's a great spot to develop young players and be competitive and, you know, for me, the goal is twofold.

It's, you know, winning and developing. And so, you know, I've had a couple people over the years, I remember there was one guy, he's still a friend of mine, he's like, God, all you guys care about is winning, and, you know, this is summer baseball, and we're trying to, we just want our guys to develop, and I'm thinking, I said, alright, here's the deal, here's the deal.

It's baseball played during the summer, but would you like us to take it less seriously than you take fall ball or spring ball when you're trying to get to [00:48:00] Omaha? That's not going to happen. And if it is, then it's, I'm not the right guy to be leading the ship. I mean, I just can't operate like that. I can't, you know, be laissez faire.

I'm not going to do it on a ping pong table or darts or it's just not going to happen. And some people that's going to irritate. But for me, I just said, We cannot develop as quickly if we are not winning or at a minimum focused on winning. Our development will slow. It's the way it works. They are not exclusive.

If all we're focused on is developing You know, we're not going to win much. And so they go back and forth. And I think the more we've won guys feel good. They feel confident, whether they were in the game that day, it's easier to get to the yard early.

It's easy to work, do some extra work get on, get back at the craft. And if you're getting your butt handed to you day in and day out or too often it's tougher. It just is right. It's tougher to stay the course. And, you know, so I think you can do both and I think that is our goal and again, another thing we [00:49:00] talk about, like, we are not just here to win, we are not just here to develop, because again, winning at the end, sure, there's some preparation, but isn't everybody preparing to win?

Some probably at a higher level. At the end of the day, the players have to perform, and you gotta be a little bit lucky, and you gotta have the will. And that's what we've tried to do at the very end, is like, do we have the will to win? Everybody wants to Do we have the will? Are we as prepared as we can be?

And is it like, nobody is going to take this opportunity away from us. So, but the players gotta play. And so I think that's the beauty of it is just trying to position ourselves at the end to, to be really effective. And if we don't get the job done, so be it. It's still been a great experience and a great journey with that group of people.

But it is, you know, it's wonderful to see them get over the line at the end, especially this last group who, you know, we had some talent, but we didn't really have that [00:50:00] Rutchman, that Magical, that Brooks Lee, that Hanager, that Boyd, you know, we did, we had a couple of really good players you know, and T Quinn was a good leader, and Merritt Jones out of Utah really pitched the heck out of it in the playoffs for us, but ultimately, that truly was a bunch of, People pulling on a rope and just finding a way to to get over the line.

So it was pretty neat to see those guys pull it off.

Ross Romano: Right. Yeah. And of course depending on the level that you're coaching, right, there's more or less emphasis on winning as the goal, but it's, it would be inaccurate to to describe development and winning as totally dependent goals, right? Because so many of the things you're doing, if you're properly developing are going to lead to success.

Yeah. You know, often we think about it, there, you know, there's this, I think, misperception that the focus on winning, all that means is either, you know, you're only giving all the opportunities to the best players and not anybody else, or you're, it [00:51:00] just means, you know, you're pushing everybody beyond their limit kind of thing, but, you know, That's not necessarily what makes up winning.

It's the small things. It's the fundamentals, it's the, you know, making the right play at the right time, doing the smart, understanding the game and the strategy or, you know, in baseball hitting the cutoff man, right. Backing up. Right. Those kind. It's the focus on doing the right things that leads to winning more than anything else.

Just like with any other endeavor in life and, you know, and there's a lot of lessons to be learned. in situations where we fail or lose, but only if we try. If you never try you're not learning much at all, but if you're giving it everything you have and you come up a little short, you can take something from that and say, Oh, you know what, if we did this differently or that, or.

Yeah, you know, at that time when I wasn't focused and I didn't do, you know, I didn't get to my spot or where I was supposed to be, it [00:52:00] cost us. And now I know better for next time that that, you know, I won't make that same mistake.

Brooke Knight: Yeah, exactly. I mean, those are the greatest lessons do come from those adverse moments. And how should I be approached with that challenge? I was a few years back where I didn't make a great decision on addition by subtraction. I won't make that mistake again, you know, and at this point in my career, you'd think I'd be smarter than that.

I just wasn't. And so, I look forward to the challenge ahead to maybe, you know, have that, formidable opportunity again and then go, Hey, you know, what am I going to do this time? So we'll see. It's a work in progress. I am surely a work in progress. And you know, that's the beauty of it too, is leaning on my coaching staff for them, like Coach Nags.

And that's why I brought him on four years ago, say, I'm tired of just being a head guy. And he was a head guy, a very successful head guy. And say, you know, if there's something you see that you don't like, or that we're not doing, well enough, just let me know. [00:53:00] And he, he does, and he's super professional and respectful about it.

But we've gotten better because of my, his ability to be candid with me and hopefully my ability to be open minded and take some advice and direction from one of my peers who I love and trust. So it's a team effort.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Excellent. Well, listeners, you can learn much more. Look in the show notes below. Learn about Brooke, learn about his coaching career, learn about his home loans business connect with him on social media. There's so much more there. So make sure to check that all out. Please also do subscribe to Sideline Sessions to hear the rest of our fall season.

We got a lot more great episodes coming up for you in the coming months. So please do stick with us, check that out and visit bpodcast. network to learn about. All of our other shows. Brooke Knight, thanks so much for being with us.

Brooke Knight: Thank you for having me. I had a great time. Appreciate it.