Sideline Sessions

[00:00:00] Welcome in, everybody, to another episode of Sideline Sessions here on the Be Podcast Network. Very pleased to have you here with us again today for another episode. This should be a really exciting [00:01:00] conversation. Delighted to be joined today by head coach Caroline McCombs, that she is the head coach entering her third season at the helm of the George Washington University women's basketball program here in Washington, D. C. The team has reached the quarterfinals of the Atlantic 10 Conference Championship in each of her first two campaigns in Foggy Bottom. And in her first season, the team set a program record for fewest points per game allowed. She is a proven winner at every stop of her now 23 year coaching career, I believe.

And Coach McCombs arrived at GW after seven years as the head coach at Stony Brook University, where she led the Seawolves to their first NCAA tournament appearance in 2021. Coach McCombs, welcome to the show!

Thanks, Ross. It's great to be here with you today.

I wanted to start we often start these conversations kind of at the beginning of the coaching career, right? And all of our coaches at the various levels kind of take different pathways to that. In your case, you went directly from being an all conference player [00:02:00] at the college level, right into the coaching ranks.

And I kind of wanted to ask, first off, What made you interested in getting involved in coaching in the first place? Was that what you kind of had always planned, or was it something that sort of came up along the way?

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. And as I reflect back to being probably a high school senior and you're like, what am I going to major in, in college? You know, that's some question that everybody asks you. And so I wanted to do something that I was very interested in learning, applying to myself.

So there was kind of knew back then, which was nutrition. And so I really wanted to be able to implement. meant a lot of things to my own personal life to be able to be the best athlete and basketball player I could be. And so how can I gain some kind of advantage by whatever I'm learning, how to fuel my body nutritionally.

And so I decided to embark on that path. And I just really kind of felt like. In some way, after I'm done playing college basketball, I want to [00:03:00] stay in sports or in a health related field. You know, just always loving the game of basketball. So actually after I finished my playing career at Youngstown State, I had an opportunity to play overseas.

So, I did initially apply to a lot of schools to be a graduate assistant. And then my Coach of my team found an opportunity for me to go over to Prague and play. And this was back in 1999. And so I had an opportunity to go overseas. I had never been to Europe before. I was on a team with no other Americans.

playing the point guard position. And so it was hard trying to run a team in a foreign language, not understanding what's slow, what's fast you have to play with pace as a point guard. So trying to communicate with my coach and run the team was really when I knew I wanted to go back to the States and become a coach.

And so after that season was over that's what I did. I came home, started applying for jobs and I was really fortunate. And it to have a [00:04:00] gentleman named Keith Freeman, who was the head coach at the time at Valparaiso University, and he was the head coach there when we played against them. I was in the same conference as them.

So you know, that's always important, right? You never know who's watching, paying attention, different types of connections that might you eventually have in your life. But that was a rival game for our team when I was a college player. And so, he offered me a job to come and be their third assistant, which was the graduate assistant and just have an opportunity to get into coaching right away.

And so I jumped on that, started getting to Indiana, working camps learning his system. And I admired how hard his teams had always played, obviously playing against them. And so for six years I was able to learn and grow. Under his leadership we were able to take our team to the first ever NCAA tournament in Valpo history.

We started by preceding that, going to the WNIT and then we went back to back NCAA tournament appearances. And so I absolutely loved my [00:05:00] journey to that point in time. I was working for a really hardworking, passionate coach who cared about people and developing people to be their best.

And so that's kind of how I got. You know, my foot in the door and started in coaching.

How did you find that transition, especially? You know, with it happening so seamlessly in a sense with your playing career, but going from, of course, being on the court you know, being a point guard, right, being really the leader of everything that's happening on the court to a position where you're still, of course, having an important impact on the team, but you're no longer in between the lines, right?

And now you're having to adjust to helping the team in other ways. Did you find that to be, that part of the transition to be difficult? And if so, like, how did you, sort of over the years, right, learn to change your kind of mentality?

Yeah, I think as you get into coaching, you have to be two feet in. I think it's a lifestyle choice that you make. You're investing in young women [00:06:00] between the ages of 18 to 22, and you start recruiting them somewhere around at least the age of 16, right? And so when you make that transition, the time commitment is much different than as a player.

You can just focus on yourself and your teammates. Now you're looking at a lot of bigger picture things. I think in my role at that time, which is so important for young people to understand coming in. To coaching, like your role in your value and being kind of that liaison between the players and the head coach or the other assistants for that matter is really important because you do share that player mentality, that's going to be like right there and you're still.

seeing things from that perspective, but you're also having more mature conversations with the coaches about what we need from the players. So sort of helping them understand your perspective as a coach, while also offering your perspective as a player to your head coach and the other assistants that might be a little bit older than you.

[00:07:00] Yeah, and I imagine there's those things that you start to pick up on the more you're involved in coaching that you say, I wish I knew that as a player and then thinking about different ways to communicate that or illustrate that right and lend that perspective to the current players to say there's those certain little blind spots of things that we If we saw it in a different way, whether it's seeing something on video or hearing it explained a little differently to say, Oh, that really just clicked.

And sometimes when we're going through the practice and things like that, it's just not, there's something we're just missing. And then you get a whole new perspective on it when you're coaching. And then when you're working with other coaches who have been doing it for a long time. Is there a way for you, do you have a particular way that you define coaching or describe what it really means to be a coach?

Yeah, I think it's just a mentor. It's a teacher. You know, I think it's a huge responsibility. I [00:08:00] ask that parents are trusting me with the lives of their young women and they're away from home and I want people to be able to lay their head on their pillow at night and know that their daughter is in a good place and well taken care of and their safety is And health is our number one priority.

And so I just think that yeah, to me, it's a responsibility and we want to model how we want people to act. And so I just think that my interactions had a huge impact on somebody's life every day. And so I just try to really have that perspective as I. get to see my players every day at eight in the morning how they wake up and our first interactions of the day are really important.

And so I love the opportunity that they have. I try to not take any day for granted that I get to walk in and mentor and coach and build relationships and connections that we want to last a lifetime. And we do that through the game of basketball. So when we're between the lines I'm definitely intense and focused and.[00:09:00]

passionate about that. And then off the court I just want to be the best person I can for our student athletes.

Totally. And those stakeholder groups you mentioned, particularly parents, student athletes themselves their coaches at the high school level we have listeners who are probably filling multiple of those roles, they may be coaching, they may have kids of their own thinking about this process and those touch points are going to begin largely through that recruiting process, right?

And having coached, of course, at the college level throughout your career you know, what have you found about how much of the job and the work and building for success comes via the recruiting and finding the right players and the players that are the best fit for your program and then the coaching parts of it that happens once they're on the roster.

Yeah, I think you know, when [00:10:00] I decided that I wanted to be a coach, I knew I wanted to be a college coach because I wanted to recruit the players that I wanted to coach. And so I love recruiting. It's a passion of mine as a head coach. It's a lot different. Then it was as an assistant coach.

You know, I love spending a whole day getting on the phone trying to find who the people are that we need to recruit. Like, I find a lot of joy. Okay. And getting on the phone, doing all that behind the scenes work. And you knock on a lot of doors, you get a lot of no's, and so you find the right piece for your program, and that's by the people that you find, and so sometimes you're like so, fixed on, we have to have this, and you might get those no's, and it leads to like the right person that you're supposed to have.

You know, in your program, but I wholeheartedly believe that's because we're putting into work and doing things the right way. And so, yeah, I mean, we look for a lot of qualities in the people that, that we're [00:11:00] recruiting. Obviously I've coached at some different schools and worked for some different head coaches.

So people are looking for different types of people and players you know, in their program. And I feel like. You know, we try to have selfless people in our program that don't care necessarily who gets the credit, but want to be a part of something bigger than themselves. And so we try to have a pound the stone philosophy as well which is just committing to a process of becoming great.

It's not going to happen overnight. We really have to just like I said, things. You know, when we get through adversity how we respond to those types of things are going to matter. So really, it's about the relationship, building the connectivity that we have one another that's going to get us through those things.

You know, it's no different than having a family, right? There's just different things that you're going to go through and how you get through those things together will determine a lot in the end.

Are there specific things that are good [00:12:00] good lessons for high school coaches in particular to learn about what the recruiting process or just even the process of becoming a candidate to perform at the college level entails and the ways that they can be supporting their student athletes in giving them opportunities to be recruited or to be seen or just succeed in that regard.

Yeah, I mean I feel like recruiting never ends for us anymore. I think it's become a little bit more challenging for younger players that are just sort of in a mid level position. I think we're kind of growing out of that phase, but some of the rules have changed regarding transfers.

And so. You know, there's just always opportunities to find older players where that hasn't always been the case, right? Traditionally you know, you're going to high school games, you're watching AAU, now we're watching AAU in April, May. June is Scholastic, July[00:13:00] and even to the beginning of August, we're now watching you know, these players perform and evaluate to eventually bring them to campus for scholarship opportunities.

So I think. You know, if coaches can connect at the high school level with college coaches, sort of, develop some relationships with college coaches, right? That's always important. Come out to a camp, to a clinic to help your players. So, when you need to make a phone call you have the relationship with the coach and they might not be the player for our program, but.

We might recommend them to another program. So I think that at the high school level, just kind of building that relationship, getting a network of college coaches is important to eventually help facilitate those types of opportunities. Obviously, you can grow in the game of basketball too in.

I don't, you, I can learn from a high school coach as much as a college coach can learn from or a high school coach can learn from me. So, just like understanding, like, it doesn't [00:14:00] matter what level that you are to be a great coach either. Like, I respect all coaches. We put in a lot of time and a lot of different people have different perspectives and schemes, so we can all learn from each other.

Yeah. And and for the student athletes themselves, do you, are there things that you have noticed certainly over the years in that? Not obviously there's ability level and skill level, right? And those things that are, most people would understand are clearly part of what makes someone a college level athlete, but there's also a variety of other factors, right?

There's there's leadership skills and things of that nature. There's also just the determination of. Is this what I really want to do? And for some people, is this the sport I want to pursue? Or am I are there certain things that you have [00:15:00] noticed with your athletes over the years that you might highlight for, say, current high school athletes who are trying to figure out, do I, should I pursue this if I do?

Is this the right fit for me? Or How am I making my determination around whether or not I want to take this to the next level,

Yeah, I think college basketball is hard. It's a huge investment. Your time whatever you want to do with your time is important and how you're going to spend your time is with your teammates and your coaches working on a game that you have to love to get better at it. You're going to spend a lot of time with your strength coaches.

You're going to spend a lot of time with your academic advisors. So just like all of those things matter. I think for us.

To translate coming to high school from high school to college and what is success. I think finding players from good high school programs with good high school coaches that helps make the transition a lot smoother because[00:16:00] you have some high level high school programs and. Their kids are being coached really well, they make a much smoother transition and they might not be the best player on their high school team, right?

But they've been really well coached in a great program where they know what competing looks like every day, right? They've had plays that they've executed, they have a good defensive system. And so those players tend to be able to learn a little bit more and adapt to the pace of the game, to the level of the competition much smoother.

Then some players that just don't have that opportunity and it's not maybe any fault of your own if you're not involved in one of those programs, but I think we've had a lot of success when you bring in players that maybe they want to state championship they're competing at that highest level.

Day in and day out, and I think that does come from high school you know, not to say you can't be on a great AU program, I think that's just as important as well, competing against, right, so sometimes [00:17:00] practices in that AU program could be just as hard as the games that you're going to play.

I want to also take some time here to talk about where you are now, right? Your team at GW and near the upcoming season here. And so as I mentioned in the top, you're entering your third season now, which I'm sure seems like A great year, kind of that pivotal year, right? You've had a couple of years to kind of get to know the school, your program what is it like for our listeners who may or may not have a huge familiarity with the program at GW historically, this is a very successful program, a team that over the years has spent a lot of years in the national rankings, made many NCAA tournaments largely with the former head coach, Joe McEwen, who you worked with at.

Northwestern. But over the past 10 to 15 years has been, had some really good years, had some years that weren't as good, right? But you know, coming [00:18:00] into a program like that, though, that has a history of a lot of success. And that, of course, would love to, to kind of continue on that trajectory. What's it like to come into a job like that and to get started and to also be establishing your own version of what that program is going to be, but with a I think a strong historical identity,

Yeah, I agree. I think you know, first and foremost, I'm honored to be the head coach here at George Washington. This is a story program. I take a lot of pride in the coaches and players that have been a part of those programs and, or those teams. And we're looking to build it and to get it back to that level.

I think that, yeah. Nothing ever is easy. You gotta work for it, and you have to have some pieces fall into place but we're, like I said, pounding the stone every day to make those things possible. As we enter into year three you know, when I got the roster, there were five [00:19:00] people. On the roster and four were on scholarship.

Thankfully we have three of those players that graduated last year and they're all back for an extra year of eligibility. We had another player in NILOC that we recruited that came here in my first year. And so she graduated. She's also pursuing her master's. So just to have Faith Blethen, Maya Woods Highwell, Essence Brown, and NILOC back for that.

Final year of eligibility, I think, speaks to how we run our program and the people that they want to be around every day. I think that we want to try to create that environment. I'm excited that they're back. And then we've. You know, recruited some other pieces as well. So alongside that we have two more graduate transfers that just give us just more depth and experience.

We also have Naya Robertson coming back, who was on the All Rookie Team and Sixth Woman of the Year in the 8 10. And then I think we've brought in some. Some freshmen that can come in and make an impact. And again, [00:20:00] we're not relying on them, but as we build the program as and throughout this course of the year, their development will be a huge factor in how we grow.

This season, because when we sub and not that anyone can't start, we haven't determined any of those things yet, but we want to get better and stronger off the bench and have a lot of depth. And so I like a lot of our opportunities that we have this year for different players and some versatility.

So I'm excited about this group.

how does it um, affect and influence your. your preparation and expectations for the season when you have such a veteran roster, not just of course in the wins and losses, but just even in the way, right, that the team culture is established, that the leadership occurs between the coaches and the players and all those things that I'm certain when you have a a number of seniors and graduate transfers who have been either on this [00:21:00] team or playing for quite a while versus years when you probably had more

Yeah. You know, as we had discussions with what our roster last year wanted to do, people coming back, people graduating the four that decided to come back, I just really asked them to invest continue to invest in the program and helping the younger players understand the culture, the standard, what those things look like on a daily basis.

Now, a lot of them had internships. This summer, which is a big part of why are you going to come to GW and what can you be able to do while still being here for the summertime is getting an internship right here in DC. So, some of them weren't in our team workouts all the time, but they were always working out with the coach doing the individual work.

Obviously, we traveled to Europe this summer. And so I think we do, we have. You know, Maiwa, who's in her sixth year and then we have some first years and so there's a huge gap in ages that way, but I think the things that they can learn from Maiwa are invaluable in just their maturation process, [00:22:00] understanding what it's like to be a student athlete at George Washington.

yOu know, we're in those beginning stages of that process. So there's a lot of things you just have to go through. You can't dictate it all out. You just have to see those things fluidly happen. Fortunately, we have great players that set an example every day. So, yeah, I mean, this is a great opportunity to kind of blend those two together.

Continuously working on ways to connect, how to learn each other's like personality types and things like that, why we are the way that we are. I think as we keep growing this year, those are the activities that we want to get into to help them learn, right? Somebody's not just being difficult. This is just how they see things, their perspective and how they communicate.

Right? And I think we need to learn that about each other so we can be better communicators with each other and understand one another better.

underclass part of that, I'm sure you know, kind of building the team, building the team's identity and its culture and bringing the players together with the coaches is you. Team went on a [00:23:00] European tour this summer, I believe Greece and Italy were the destinations, but can you tell us about that?

What did that entail? What was the purpose and thinking behind planning that?

Yeah, I mean, it was a fantastic trip. You know, I'm so thankful for the leadership here at the university that really allowed us that opportunity. And I really, the players that had been in the program, it was the time that was for them you know, for being here and all the things that they've done for this program and just for the new players.

It's just an opportunity to start figuring it all out and connect a little bit earlier. Then we typically do. So it definitely had its challenges and there's a balance again, with our veteran players, there's also a little bit different way that they might need to train than some of our newcomers.

And so just understanding that, that body. Management health wise all those things are important and so just as you're trying to put in your offensive and defensive systems to play a couple games, you clearly can't get all of those things [00:24:00] done in 10 days. So, I think both of our systems take some time to figure out.

So we're currently. finishing about our 10th day of practice. So just, we're still putting all of those things together, but I think it got us a great opportunity to get to know each other outside of the basketball court, even just because this summer with the veterans, like I said, doing some internships, they weren't always around in some things.

And so I think that. We've just continued to build those relationships while we were gone, fortunately, get on the court a couple times and compete, see what some of those things look like, and now, like, we're in it we're in it, and it's fun.

Is there anything that you either learned or just gained a new perspective on as a coach by Taking your team into a different environment and doing something that's outside of the normal routine.

You know, I just, it was just. I'm just grateful I think that for this group just kind of after we were done playing the [00:25:00] games, it was like they needed it. Right. And I think that they worked so hard to be successful on the basketball court to be successful academically. I just think that time spent.

is invaluable. We don't always get to do that. You know, we're always so fixed on this is my routine. I'm in my own world. These are the things that I have to do every single day. So to just be able to be together and like not have those interruptions or even just, I mean, I think We were still had our cell phones, but we weren't necessarily on our cell phones as much like I think the best day was probably a boat tour that we did where we went to the three islands and at the end of the tour our whole team is dancing with in some Greek culture and just like having some fun as we head home and we were together for like 12 hours that day.

And I just don't think we always get to spend that time with one another. We're always. texting somebody else or just not as present as we possibly could [00:26:00] be and I just think that being able to be present whether that was at just different meals throughout the trip or whatever just is invaluable that time together that we just don't always keep rushing around and doing things at the fast pace that we typically live our lives.

Yeah, I totally, I can see how valuable and lasting those experiences can be. I often talk to people even just about people who are looking for a new job, for example, and talking about some of those intangibles and like one of the biggest. things in whether or not you may eventually get hired is do people get the sense that You're somebody that they'd like to spend a lot of time around, right?

Because they'll be around you a lot. And it's it might not be on your resume and it might not even be totally conscious, but it's like, all right, if I'm with this person for 40, 50, 60 hours however many hours a week am I going to enjoy that time or [00:27:00] am I going to regret it? And of course a humongous thing would be With team building and, between the coaches and the players, like, as you said, they're around each other all the time, that's going to be your community and the more you get to know one another on a personal level and you gain new insights on to, of course, how you also perform athletically, right, again, like looking at kind of the, this upcoming season, but just thinking, of course, Overall as well, how do you balance with your goal setting the short term versus the long term goals at the level at which you're coaching, you're of course always evaluated on the bottom line results of wins and losses and performance in the conference and all of those things right at the same time, of course.

your first couple of years, you're in a new school, [00:28:00] you're building a new program, you're bringing in the student athletes that fit with what you're wanting to build and getting a sense of that. So you have things that are part of that long term building, but also each year, things that you want to accomplish that given year, and that you're hoping that your individual players, I'm sure, accomplish as well.

Have you found a a process that you go by where you're able to kind of set and identify Short and long term goals together.

Yeah, so I think you know, my first, I became a head coach in 2014, and I think in 2017, I really changed my philosophy, and it was to burn your goals. We actually stopped setting goals and started focusing on goals. you know, on the process in like little commitments and controllables that we can make every day.

So absolutely does every coach sit in front of their team and they want to win the A 10 championship, cut down the nets. Yes, [00:29:00] that's the carrot that's dangling in front of everybody, want to hang up a banner hanging you know, in your gym. It's just something that we choose to not focus on. And so we choose to focus on commitments and controllables in routines and little things.

That we can do every day to get better. And so, those are the things that we try to talk about. Doing the small, mundane things over and over again with great excellence. To me, those are the things that the stone's eventually gonna crack, right? If you continue to do those things.

And if you don't do those things and your opportunity presents itself. And you're not ready for it. You're not ready for it. And so, that's just my philosophy. Personally, it's the one that we instill in our players. Right now, we're just having some mini meetings is what I'm calling them. And so they're just 15 minute meetings where.

We're evaluating and we've already had bigger meetings. What are the things that you want this season? What are the things that you're working for? So like evaluating if we're [00:30:00] actually doing those things and how we're doing it. But just like two things that you're doing really well, two things we want you to work on.

You know, right now as we head into a fall break period and just when we come back, we're still focusing on ourselves, but in a couple more days we're gonna have a scout coming up and so really just sticking to that process continuing to learn and grow together obviously being ready for the obstacles that we're gonna face because they're coming as they do through every season and how we respond to those types of things really matter.

You know, last year, our season A couple points decided between third and seventh place, right? And so just small little things that add up. And so we just try to focus on that. And so I found that to just be important and like I said, everyone wants to talk about what they want.

Not everyone wants to put the work in to make those things possible.

Yeah. And I think part of what you mentioned earlier in that response is you know, [00:31:00] for anybody who's listened to a variety of episodes, a theme that comes up time and time again, which is fundamentals, right? Focusing on getting those things right over and over again, and then you can build on them in any variety of ways.

But if you really are. Doing the fundamentals, the core focus areas, whether it's the core skills or just focusing on, I think, what you can control. Then there's a lot of potential that can come out of that. I'd be remiss before we wrap up here. I love to ask our guests here about coaches they've learned from and that made an impression or an impact on them, either in inspiring them to get into coaching or just even as you've gone through your career where you've picked up different lessons and things that you still use in your job.

Yeah, I mean, I think every coach from high school to my college coach to the coaches I've worked under have Definitely shaped me to becoming the person that I [00:32:00] am today. You know, I've tried to take little things that I learned from them to help me be better. At the end of the day, you have to be your best self when you're in this leadership type of a role and really be authentic in who you are.

And I'll just kind of go back to what I was talking about in 2017. I went to a leadership conference and that's where I met Joshua Metcalfe, who has probably been the biggest influence in my life as far as taking away You know, the necessarily winning goals type of mentality and then just committing to the process.

So through my interactions with him in some group settings to some one on ones to reading all of his books he's somebody that's been inspiring to me and how I lead. As an individual and how we run our program here and just making it about the people in the process and not the outcome has just made me enjoy this profession and every day a lot more.

Coach McCombs, if[00:33:00] for our other coaches who are listening today, is there any last little lesson or a little insight that you would like to leave them with to think about as they depending on what they're coaching, either head into their upcoming seasons or continue with their current season?

Yeah, I just think find joy in the journey. I think there's going to be obstacles. There's going to be things that come up along the way, but just like enjoying the ugly mess as much as the winds and things, right? Because when you can get through those tough things together. There's tremendous joy on the other end and you don't recognize and realize some things that just don't go your way, why they don't go your way, because there's a bigger, something bigger out there for you.

And so just continuing to, like I said find joy every day and the things that you're doing don't make it about the wins. Those will come as you do things the right way and really just care about the people.

[00:34:00] Excellent. Yes, I think sports should be fun, right? If we're not finding some joy and fun in it, it might just be not for you. So listeners our guest today has been Coach Caroline McCombs from GW Women's Basketball. You can find her on GWWomensBasketball. com. x slash Twitter at Coach McCombs.

You can also follow the team on social media. We'll put those links below. So you can check that out. You can also go to gwsports. com to find the upcoming season schedule, depending on when you're listening to this. We may have already begun the 2023 24 season, but you can check that out there. Please do also subscribe to Sideline Sessions to hear the rest of our season here in the fall and our upcoming season in the spring.

We're continuing to bring you conversations with a variety of great coaches from across the sporting landscape. We also hope you'll visit bpodcast. network to learn about all of our shows. Coach McCombs, thanks so much for being on the show.

Thanks for having me. [00:35:00]