Sideline Sessions

Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome, everybody, to another episode of Sideline Sessions here on the Be Podcast Network. So pleased to have you with us. Hope you've been enjoying the fall season so far, and we should have another great [00:01:00] conversation here today. My guest is Charlie Miller.

He's a master basketball coach, author, and the owner of Attack Basketball Academy, which is in the Dallas, Texas area. Charlie in his playing career was a McDonald's All American and the Florida's Gatorade player of the year at South Miami High School. He played at Indiana University and in the Junior Olympics, and also professionally in Europe and the us.

And then as a coach, he started out training hundreds of players individually on teams and small groups. He founded the Attack Basketball Academy in 2009, and he's also been a head coach of breakthrough basketball. So a little bit of everything here. Charlie, welcome to the show.

CharlieMiller: Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it, Ross, so much.

Ross Romano: So I wanted to start with your playing career and I just read some of the highlights, right? But it didn't start that easy. You had to start somewhere.

CharlieMiller: Come on, man. That's right.

Ross Romano: You know, how did you first get started and kind of, I think at the middle school level, right? It was when you first got involved in the sport.

And what was your first exposure to coaching, right? How did that kind of bring you along and develop into eventually, of course, becoming highly successful? Right.

CharlieMiller: Yeah, great [00:02:00] question because it's easy to talk about all the things you've done successfully, but like you go back to the beginnings, it wasn't humbling. It was terrible, right? So, so for me growing up in South Miami, Florida, you play sports by the season and football in Florida, if you can imagine, is the dominant sport, American football, right?

I mean, it's the dominant sport. So we value playing football more than any other sport because also we were spoiled in South Miami, Florida. Here's why. I grew up in the late eighties, early nineties, five minutes away from University of Miami,

Ross Romano: Right.

CharlieMiller: Carl gave us, Florida was like across the street from me.

So I would go out and watch like the swagger, like the confidence of the Michael Irvins and. You know, the players and when I was all of 8, 9, 10 years of age, [00:03:00] so that like going to watch their practices were like wide open. So to say for one exposure to like high level athletes was like right in my neighborhood, right?

Two playing sports by the season when basketball, well, when football ended, basketball began, and that was something we did socially. We just played because we kind of were forced to play because we kind of did everything together. And I don't know, I think I started getting taller. And getting hit on the football field was not fun any longer.

And all of a sudden I just fell in love with basketball at about 12 years of age.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, it's interesting, as you mentioned, growing up around the University of Miami football team in their heyday and that team having these larger than life coaches, Howard Schnellenberg, Jimmy Johnson, right? People who were really recognizable. You know, and then [00:04:00] I mentioned, When you went to college, you played at Indiana, and this was when coach was Bobby Knight.

He had been there already 20 plus years, won three champ he was already a legend, right? And so it was inescapable that, that was That had to be a big part of your calculations and deciding where to go play that certainly a big part of this had to be about the coaches because you knew who he was and he not only highly successful, but even now, and he's probably been retired 15 years, one of the most recognized, well known coaching figures, right?

And from that era where coaches had those kind of high profiles but. How are you thinking about that? Because of course, as an athlete, it's something I'm sure there were other things about the university that appeal to you as well. But a big part of it had to be thinking about.

Okay. Who is this coach? How does this fit what I'm trying to be? [00:05:00] What I need as an athlete? Where I'm trying to go to? How did you kind of think about that as you were entering?

CharlieMiller: All right. So one great question. I want to back up a little bit too, because you got to go back to sports in general with coaches, especially youth sports. When you first start playing, they're teaching you the essence of the game, the essentials, the fundamentals. One, you don't really see it as a character development piece.

When you're younger, you just want to play. But you don't realize like the discipline, the self control, the behavior modification, all those things that you know now. Oh, that's what they were doing.

Ross Romano: Right.

CharlieMiller: I get it. So, interesting enough, my football coaches when I was younger they were all police officers, or they worked for the city of South Miami, where I was actually born and raised.

So, they were pillars of the community. So, they were always highly respected. You know, you didn't want to make a mistake, not because you [00:06:00] wanted to disappoint them, because you just felt you were going to be in trouble, right? So, so whatever that was, right, whatever that, now, I know it to now be called a primal cue, I'll talk about that coming up soon, but like, It was just people of high authority you really respected in your neighborhood.

And then that led to me, Ross, really, I would say, by the grace of God, I mean, this is like unreal. I'm 12 years of age. I'm ducking the basketball. Don't ask me how. This is before you do vertical jump training. This is before you do any type of VertiMax jumping. All the 12 week, 8 week stuff we do now.

I was able to dunk at 12. I have no idea how. Why? I don't know. It was one Friday night that really changed my life. It was actually my future high school coach, Coach Charlie Fong, came to watch a game because our head coach, Coach Morris, said, Hey, your future of your basketball program is here. [00:07:00] Not necessarily me, but my friends.

They were in the 8th. I was in the 7th grade. And here's your future. So he came to watch us play. And again, I was able to dump the basketball, shoot lights out from anyone on the court. I don't know how and where. I was always had a good aim. I don't know. That was a God given thing. So all of a sudden he walks up to me and said, Hey, you have a chance to play high level basketball.

And that scared me. So I was like, who is this guy? One, you don't look like anybody I know in my neighborhood too. Okay. And why are you telling me this? Three, I play baseball. And football. I don't play basketball. I do some fun, but it was something he was so persistent at saying, Hey kid, you got talent. You have a chance to be really good.

And I was just really like, again, I don't play basketball. I'm doing this because it's the season. It's kind of like they make us do it for like conditioning for football, but he was so persistent that here it is. I'm a 7th grader Ross. All of a sudden he's [00:08:00] coming by to pick me up as an 8th grader, 530 in the morning, have me go to the gym at the high school, practice with his high school team.

Ross Romano: Yeah.

CharlieMiller: That was so intimidating

Ross Romano: Yeah.

CharlieMiller: because I'm seeing everybody in my neighborhood that are juniors and seniors in high school I'm running away from because not being bullies, but just in neighborhood stuff, right? Right? They're not bullies, but every time you see them, you're afraid of them because they're really good.

And now you're playing and competing against them as an 8th grader. And you're doing well. So it was something he saw in me. I'd never saw it myself. You just got to calculate that eighth grade, ninth grade, 10th grade, 11, waking up five during the morning. He's teaching, teaching me how to work ethic.

You know, effort and that led to me to have a stellar career in high school. It was Charlie Folt going to coaches. That's why I want to kind of give you that story to really paint a picture of that. I didn't realize what coaching meant when I was younger. [00:09:00] Now I get it now that it's my turn now to pay this full this opportunity.

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Ross Romano: That brings out the natural question, which is. Can you still dunk?

CharlieMiller: I still can at 46 and I'm not, I still can. And it's pretty cool. To say I can, and I, it's a lot of energy. Put it that way. Okay. I'm on the course. Sometimes we'll talk about this later. But I'm on the course sometimes for four or five plus hours straight. yOu know, I'm just trying to show a layup the kids can dump,

Ross Romano: Yeah.

CharlieMiller: I can show you how to shoot a jumper, but man, dunking, that's a lot of energy.

Ross Romano: Yeah. No, I you said your first you dunked at 12. I think my first dunk was at 13, but I don't think I can anymore. And I'm not going to find out because it's not worth the risk of

I don't want any surgery or

CharlieMiller: me. That's right. That's right. We have to, you got to do the podcast next day. I got more trainings, man. [00:10:00] It's not worth it. Risk is not worth it.

Ross Romano: No, yeah, it's sad. I don't know when the last was.

CharlieMiller: I hear that, man. I hear it. I hear it.

Ross Romano: So, so so this was right, your experience with coaching as a player. And now then of course, eventually after your playing career, you started moving to coaching yourself. Are there certain things? That as you were developing your own approach to coaching, right?

And I know at this point you really promote a, it's a process over outcomes approach, but are there certain things that you specifically took from the coaches that you had and other specific things that you did, right? Cause of course, when you're at, of course. Process over outcomes doesn't mean we don't have great outcomes, but at the same time when you're playing at elite level division one basketball on a professional levels, of course, the outcomes are the focus in a way that it's not a youth development.

So I'm sure there's certain things that you said, yes, I learned this from these [00:11:00] coaches. It's part of my thing. And other things you said, this is just not the right thing for this level of athlete or for what we're doing here.

CharlieMiller: Yeah. So, so the best way to put that is over time when you have an opportunity like I've had from high school, high level college, high level playing professional sports, high level, What you, to sum it up, what you end up doing is you learn what not to do. Right? You learn what did motivate others around you and you saw how they probably became more resentful or pushing you or now you now have a hard time dealing with authority when someone is sharing with you feedback.

A. K. A. Criticism, right? And we always take it to heart. I mean, it's, I mean, we're human. You make a mistake and you get called out in front of 18, 000 people, you're going to feel a certain way. I can tell you too [00:12:00] many stories of that in college. But you learn what not to do. You learn to be, for me, it's really about relationships, right?

It's it's the best way to say it is You treat everybody fair, but not the same. There's some players you can drive into because you know that's going to inspire them, not motivate them. It's going to really inspire them to drive because they have it. it's some that you probably have to have a more try softer approach.

There's a try harder approach, try softer approach. So that's been my, my kind of way in a nutshell to kind of put that all in where there's been some great takeaways from Coach Knight. There's some things I probably won't do because I know how it made me feel. I know how it made me resent things in life that I realized.

So I got older. Oh, that's where that came from. I realized that now. So I got to the root of things, not just the symptoms. So when you get to the root of it now, it's like you have this opportunity. That'll [00:13:00] make you soft, just makes you more aware, right? And this, to me, what makes you more resilient, because now it's more of the soft skills of life.

You can actually now instill in somebody else and say, I can now share with Ross in a way to correct him where Ross feels I'm on his side and I can't, I have his back versus Ross is the worst thing on earth. Which sometimes coaches make you feel at those high levels because at that, it's just about wins and losses.

I mean, you're talking about, you're talking about 18 to 25 plus year old people really um, affording the life you live, because if you can't win, you get fired. Right. It's not about, oh, it's okay, Johnny. It's okay, Sue. It's okay, John. It's not right. So, but yet that process of improvement is important.

And sometimes just as important. You can't look too far ahead. You just don't have, be present Right. As much as possible.

Ross Romano: Right. Yeah, I always sort of simple my oversimplification, but I would [00:14:00] break it down. And this is in a lot of things, but particularly in athletics, where athletes are either primarily motivated to prove you right or to prove you wrong, right? As coach, right? There's, and I think most fit into the first bucket where The coach who encourages them, shows they believe in them, it's etc.

They really, they're going to reach the highest level because they want to prove you're right for believing them. And then there's the others that their best performance comes out of. You know, that, that tougher approach, that doubting them kind of, and then they're like, I'm going to, I'm going to show you that you're wrong, right?

But, as a coach, you need to know which is which, or sometimes it's the same uh, athlete, and you're kind of, you need to switch up your approach here and there. Okay, they've gotten a little complacent, or, okay, They seem to be losing confidence. I need to reinstill that in them. But when you only have one approach or the other, that's when it's it's not going to work because everybody's different and everybody has those it might be a day to day [00:15:00] thing where, okay, this You know, players showed up today and there has not in it and I need to try something different to really get them focused here.

You know, and it's interesting. I would say like in whether it's popular culture or just kind of the overall approaches toward it, how things shift back. Back and forth over time, right? We once had this idealized version of these super tough coaches who were just going to give up and then it's shifted to, okay, now, and now it's about positive encouragement and it kind of goes back and forth.

But really what it's about is knowing your athletes, knowing their personality, really caring about their outcomes and figuring out, okay, what are the things that helped to bring the best out in them?

CharlieMiller: no, no question. I mean, if I can interject what I do now this is approach I actually do now. 'cause this is a lot of reading knowledge books, strategies. [00:16:00] Also just experiences what I've gone through, highs and lows with coaches over time. I proactively like to ask young athletes.

And it shocks them. Here's the question. The question is, how do you want me to coach you when you're in a bad mood? And normally they say, what do you mean? Hey, it's all good now. This is great. Everything I'm sharing with you is working. That one day you had a bad day in school and you came here and I could tell something's wrong, but you tell me that proverbial nothing.

And you're sure that's proactively what we need to activate that skill, we need to know the rhythms because when you have that bad day, that tough day, I want you to find your voice and say coach had a tough day, not to call you soft to say no, that's right, that's strength. So now we need to adjust our workout.[00:17:00]

We need to adjust what we do today, because you may not have that physical aptitude, you may not have that physical resilience today. Now you need me to be more on your side, not to hold your hand, but to kind of get behind you a little bit. So, proactively, I like to ask those questions in the beginning, as I'm getting to know my young actor.

So, I, and it's something that's, it's a behavior, it's forever adjusting, right? It's not just set, right? That's the process, it's behavior modification. It's forever going. Right? And I think it's not necessarily head knowledge either. It's heart. You're trying to get to know them for who they are, not what they do, who they are, what they want to become in life.

As you know, the ball will stop bouncing. It will become a fifth quarter in life. How can you support them? So that's what I go back to Coach Big O when I was younger. He taught me how to be nice. Be nice, Charlie, but in a nasty manner when you play. Off the court, you got to be nice, off to feel nice. On that court, be nasty.[00:18:00]

That, that stuff I never forget, so that approach is something that, again, proactively, I like to come into when I'm first training a player, I want to get to know them, not when we're reactive, I see something's up, you don't know me that well, Ross, I'm asking questions, I'm giving you details, miscommunicating.

I'm going to take that. I'm going to take accountability because I've been there before and I know what it looks like. It's a boil up.

Ross Romano: right.

CharlieMiller: It's a boil up. So how can I proactively now help myself but help that young person understand that how you do anything in life is how you do everything in life. You can now have that approach with everything you do, not just on the court, off the court, whatever it might be.

Ross Romano: Yeah. And I mean, I think that ties in you know, nicely to what you describe about your approach, coaching the whole player, the physical, intellectual, emotional that it's the whole person in front of you, of course. You know, you're coming at it with the expertise of wanting to teach them about the fundamentals and advanced techniques over [00:19:00] learning the game, but it's people that play the game, right?

It's you know, you have to know, yeah, you have a bad day, good day, or you, I want this to be if they did have a bad day, how do we turn this into the thing that turns that day around versus now I gotta go, now I have to go there. This is just getting worse.

CharlieMiller: Yeah. Having fun with it. You know, there's players I trained, they miss a shot. I just we just first started training and they missed a shot. OMG. You know, but they said, Oh my God. And oh man, like, first of all, I'm not even upset. Why are you upset over missing a shot? You try to impress me.

Don't do that. You need to learn how to miss. This is rehearsal. Make mistakes. You need to make all the mistakes that you can, right? Learn that. Learn how to say next shot, best shot mentality, not react. Play with emotion, don't get emotional. Because let that emotion go into technique and tactics, strategies, not into every time you don't get that outcome you want.

[00:20:00] You blow up now it's three or four shots. I gotta calm you down. Let's not do that. We but again, that's a process over time. Where it's about balance, right? It's about balance. Okay. You missed a shot. How about you create an algorithm? I can't miss three in a row. If you can shoot that well, I can't miss four in a while.

I'm not there yet. Right. Next shot, best shot. Okay. Next, say next, say something. Let's instead of the we have a reaction to it. Let's continue to respond to it and then create a possibility.

Ross Romano: Yeah. When it comes to balancing technique with mindset. What's your approach there? Does one come before the other, right? Because a lot of times it's, I mean, the mindset is... focusing on the fundamental. aNd also it's those things of really instilling and drilling those techniques and those fundamental skills so that on that day when you're tired or you're under pressure whatever's happening, like you can get into those routines.

But you know, of course you have to have the [00:21:00] mindset to focus on those things first, because I'm sure most players don't come through the door. thinking, let's learn the fundamentals, right? They're coming thinking about something that they think is more exciting, but that's how you get to the next level.

CharlieMiller: Yeah. So, so great question. And one way I share this now with players. In a nice way is what I get a lot of times is players want to learn advanced concepts, and I'm always asking a question. I'm not questioning them, and I'm saying this on purpose. I'm always asking, what is advanced concepts to you?

What does that mean? And they'll give me the answer. And then I'll ask another question. For example, how many dribbles do we have in basketball? And I'll get, I don't know. Okay, not wrong. It's only five dribbles in basketball. A pound? It's And inside out, across, over, between, behind. If we don't know those [00:22:00] five things, we want to know some advanced concepts.

Complexity does not equal effort. Complexity, simplicity, the key to consistency and efficiency is simplicity. So you don't have to think about these things, right? So, so because a drill is complex, it means it's advanced. Sometimes the most simplest drill is advanced because it helps you focus. And focus brings concentration awareness.

So I'm teaching that, that's what I'm teaching more so to the mind. I mean, I know, I mean I don't know if you've ever heard the word platitude ever heard the word platitude before. That's what this stuff is to me. I'm sorry. Right. And to educate our listeners, right? Nothing against it, but platitudes, my listeners are The moral statements that we currently hear, we don't, that mean nothing to us not saying nothing against it, Ross.

Mindset to mental toughness. Man, I mean, I'm hearing this everywhere I go. I'm sick of it. I'm like, I'm sorry, like. [00:23:00] Like, what does it mean? It means so many things to so many different people. So, so for me, awareness is my work. Or you can't do what you can't see. You can't see it because you can't recognize it.

You don't recognize it because you can't, you're not aware. So we can't do anything, we can't do complex concepts. Let's train the brain first to look out for verbal cues. So that's how I teach the brain. I give verbal cues, action starters, and physical cues. And I give them in rhymes. If we're working on ball handling, keeping it very simple, I'll say this, see chest, change direction.

No chest, go. I'll have you repeat it back to me. We'll walk it. See my chest, change. No ball. Shadow drill. Right, learn to progress the skill and I'm also educating them too on habit stacking, not multitasking, build the skill layer by layer so the skill becomes permanent and then [00:24:00] I'll find a way to put that same skill Ross into a metaphor for life,

Ross Romano: Yeah.

CharlieMiller: And so that's how I trained right, but this is years of studying myself first, my mistakes my mishaps, my hang ups to say, okay, I've made a turnaround.

Where'd those turnarounds come from? It was really just one of the coaches I had in my life told me when I told him, Hey, I was burnt out. He said, you're not really burnt out. You're not as good as you used to be.

Ross Romano: Yeah.

CharlieMiller: That was a real eye opener. Some tears came down my eyes. It was just real talk. You're not as good as you used to be.

He gave me two books. He said, you got two books. I need you to read. One was the Talent Code by Daniel Coyle and the Mindset by Carolyn Dweck. And those two books changed my life. Talent Code brought me to The Little Book of Talent. Also, there are by Daniel Coyle, which is basically 52 tips on how to get better at getting better in ways of successful people and that's what really gave me this approach of seeming really cerebral, but really giving [00:25:00] cues, really learning how to teach a lot in a small amount of space, right?

Where skills will become permanent, not just something we do in that moment.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Do you, or what do you do with, I guess integrating watching, visualizing and doing, right? Like one of the things that It frustrated me later on in my life, but when I realized it later was I didn't become that good at watching and like breaking down the sports I was watching until after my playing days. I mean with football, like film study was part of it and but then like baseball, particularly basketball, it was like the kind of thing where. It was later on when I was no longer playing that I would see the things that I was watching and say, Oh, this is what I should have been doing, right?

These techniques and those things. And I think a big part of that is also uh, players. It gives you a more accurate [00:26:00] um, view of yourself and how you're executing, right? When you see kind of some of the moves, the whether it's post moves or different dribbles or defensive positioning, right? Some of those important things and you see how it's done correctly and then you are trying To actually execute on that, you have a more accurate view of what you're doing, versus if you just go straight into practicing and doing it and you're never breaking down that tape of yourself or of just others who are good at it, you may, in your mind, what you think you look like is not what you look

CharlieMiller: Yeah, definitely. And I would say this is I've been able to travel the world, not only as a player, but also as a coach doing basketball camps. And this is worldwide. tHere, there's three styles of learning, right? There's kinesthetic, that's doing, I got to get the ball and go, I got to feel it, I got to make mistakes somehow.

It's auditory, I can [00:27:00] listen, like you can give me step 3 and I can go, right? And then there's visual, I can see it, don't give me words, let me go. So K A V, right? Learning styles. And we all are a mixture, so we might be stronger in one area than another. But to me, on the western side of the world, we don't like to listen.

We like to just do, we go, and then I got it, show me, and the checking for understanding is what we were taught when I grew up, just go figure it out, and actually it was harsh, I mean go figure it out with some choice words, and mom and dad wasn't proving it, get hit upside the head with your helmet.

You know, get pat on your back or your butt. It was done by force. I mean, I'm just being real with you, right? Now, I don't want to do that. In the day and age we live in, I know how that was done. That's why I said I know what not to do. But you gotta take it here. We don't stare [00:28:00] at what we want to become like.

We don't copy. We don't mimic enough. We don't. We just want to do. Versus, I tell players, this is John Wooden's way of teaching, okay? His philosophy. As a coach, to keep it simple was, explain what you want done, what is the outcome, demonstrate it, if you can't demonstrate it, you can't demo it, find an athlete or find a coach who can model it, have your athletes imitate what you demonstrated.

And then coach because coaching means correction. So in a acronym for me, EDIC. So that's the way I tell players, watch me, stare, don't don't mimic it. I'm going to have that time and then do it away from the basket because the basket is disruptive because you have that ball in your hand. You just want to shoot and it's not the shot.

It's your footwork. The game is won from the ground up. It's [00:29:00] really your ground in your head. Everything else will follow. Right. So it's the steps. So that's how I've been able to. really curtail and help athletes understand. It's not necessarily just watching generic pros too. We can go watch Kyrie Irving.

We can go watch all these pros. That's great. It's a great move, but let's watch the details of that non dribbling hand make contact, that chicken wing, that offhand. Let's watch. Look at how the arm was down from that defender. His arm, his wrist got over top. Let's look at that detail. Now let's go work on that detail.

Look at how it's creating use space. So, it's a lot of reinforcement that I've learned to do over the years, but learning how to stare first, and then mimic second. And then do is it's really the best way to get that skill within about eight weeks to be honest with you.

Ross Romano: Yeah. And you know, one of the, one of the things you reference I think on the attack basketball academy website is players that have these [00:30:00] goals and everybody has their own goals, right? They're coming from all kinds of levels. And but one of the things standing in, in between those goals is.

These confidence crushing roadblocks, right? And part of overcoming that is, is the mental toughness piece. And you referenced earlier, right, there's a lot of platitudes that get thrown around about mental toughness, or sometimes it's just not even, it's not even that far. It's just coaches saying, be tough, right, without actually teaching it.

But what are some of those When you think about the, especially the athletes here, you're coaching nowadays some of those things that really do challenge their confidence or challenge their ability to see themselves getting to their dreams. And then how can coaches go about really developing that mental toughness in them to understand that a lot of those things are real, right?

But there's only one way to get beyond them and that's perseverance.

CharlieMiller: Overcoming correct. And [00:31:00] so, and I call the other side of success. So, one of the ways for me is the first challenge I give an athlete, whether the athlete is seven or eight years of age. to 20 plus years of age. We had a great session. Yes. Okay. Can you give me feedback on what we worked on? Okay.

Awesome. Okay. Now, where are you going to keep all these things in my head? Okay. As soon as you walk out this door, you're going to forget 90 percent of this stuff. So the best way to say it is when you think it, you got to ink it. The word ink isn't thinking. You have to learn to become a student to write this stuff down.

It's too much. We're really talking about one or two things that you probably learned this session. If I'm doing a basketball camp, Ross, it's six hours, I'm teaching nine to three, and I'm proactively saying, you're going to learn a lot of details, I could have your head spinning, it's going to help, [00:32:00] it's going to be great, it's in your face, it's going to create advantages, but if you don't take precious time in between water breaks, go to your phone, not to look at TikTok, but to write down in notes, one or two things, this is going to be like a slippery fish and get away.

All of a sudden you're overwhelmed. And I think that's what it becomes more than anything. The thinking process in sports is more overwhelmed because, I'm not saying this is a problem, but I think a lot of coaches weren't taught or the way, the value of taking, studying, because If I only have 50 minutes of a practice session at third period as a high school coach,

And I'm getting ready for my, this is preseason.

If I'm not proactively doing things and I'm only, I only have so many minutes with them per week, then it's tough. It's, and I think that's what happens. It's hard to be effective with a window if it's going to be all dedicated to my [00:33:00] plays, my sets, my actions, and then my small sided games that break down my play sets and actions. What window is there for players to learn how to take notes if that's not something you're proactively planning out weeks at a time? So that's, that to me is one, I'm telling players, you have to get a dedicated notebook. You can't have a 4. 0, 3. 8, 3. 9, a high GPA, but on the court, you're playing like a 1. 9, a 2. 0, and you wonder why. And it's hitting your confidence because that self image is hit because you're winging it.

Let's face it. You're trying to, you're trying to keep all this information in your head and then in a moment's notice, make these moves? Nah, that's why I say the pros are cheating. You don't realize a pro is as cerebral as they can be. They're watching the same play over and over. They're studying their LeBron watches basketball with eight TVs.

Ross Romano: Yep.[00:34:00]

CharlieMiller: He's watching eight games at the time, at a time. Right. And why? Because he wants to see tendencies. Where are the weaknesses? Where are the strengths? Where are the opportunities? So, so like that's what I'm also trying to share with young athletes. I don't care what sport it is, right? You want to stare at what you want to become, but learn the intricate details of how you can create advantages and put your opponent at disadvantages.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. And when realistically, what, as a young athlete, when you attend a camp or training session, you don't know, you don't know what's going to serve you the best in the future, right? You need to kind of take note of that, revisit it, try out different things, because there's that, that one skill, that one technique, that one thing in a whole day of different things that is going to end up being the go to thing for

CharlieMiller: That's right.

Ross Romano: You know, but if you're not able to revisit that and try that and test [00:35:00] that it's just one day, right? And you need to, I mean, it's, you need to keep practicing, keep trying different things, keep testing about understanding that. The more you play, not only does the physical practice help you hone your skills, but just the more your knowledge base expands, the more you understand, because you've seen more things, you've seen different defensive looks, or different types of skill sets in players that you're trying to defend, all these kind of things, that, oh, now I understand that I didn't understand it before because somebody told me about it, but I had never seen it, and now I get it, or now I've seen somebody who's just this person that I underestimated, but they just were really good because they knew how to position their body and now I understand it and okay, what was that thing that I learned about six months ago?

I have to go back and think about that again. You know, do the players have [00:36:00] different ways that they are? Actually, it's not even the direction I want to go because I have something more interesting

CharlieMiller: Oh, you're fine. You're fine.

Ross Romano: um, Is I think there's something that you must have learned about through the fact of having the Academy and the way in which you and I'm sure this progressed and developed over time, right?

But you have A website where everything is laid out. It's clearly articulated. Here's what we do here. Here's our approach. Here's how it helps you. Here's what you're accountable for. All those things that I think is so critical to the success of those student athletes to understanding that all the stakeholders are clear on what is the approach here and what are we trying to achieve and what do you have to do?

The players, their parents, There are other coaches, right, things that sometimes I think can really be missing, let's say, from a coach who is the high school basketball [00:37:00] coach, who doesn't have to, they're the coach at the school, the players are going to come to play for that team, they don't have to necessarily put all that stuff out there or be, or they don't, it's not a requirement that they be as good at communicating all of those things, and yet, It's beneficial if they do, right, because now everybody on the same page when you talk about things like whether it's You know, process over outcomes, or whether it's particular techniques or skills that you're trying to develop, or whatever it is, that if we're all on the same page, you understand what our goals are, one, you can get more support, because now you know, you, if you go home, and Parents might ask, okay, well, what are you working on and what did you work on this month and you can get that reinforcement or your administrators or whoever is your boss, right, is hopefully evaluating you based on the program that you're trying to run, not based on their perception of what they think it is you're trying to do, because you [00:38:00] haven't really communicated.

But what have you learned through You know, through that process of having the academy and through learning more and more about how you describe what your approach is and articulate that to the stakeholders that are then involved.

CharlieMiller: Yeah. So I can tell you this. When we first started, I mean, a lot of those a lot of the ways now came from really attrition. It really didn't come from having success. And then here's this GPS I call game plan for success. No, it was losing players as we had 20 teams at one point in time in my organization.

It was trying to be everything to everybody. Never saying no, trying to be at every workout, every practice and feel like I let people down, not trying to groom new coaches help them out, coach the coaches in a sense. So it really came from a loss that I said, okay, I had to take a step back and say, one, I have to get better at coaching.

Just because I play, doesn't mean I could coach, doesn't mean I could teach the game, [00:39:00] right? So I think that's the first thing that probably came up. But then second, It was life, because for me, as I was reflecting through, like, losing players, losing teams or organization, this is now like 10 plus years ago, I could look at myself, okay, what was I doing missing?

What was I still hung up on as a player? What was really showing up when I got that? You know, it's easy to say now to you, Ross have emotion, but don't get emotional. I stayed emotional

Ross Romano: right.

CharlieMiller: when I first started. Plus, I mean, it was a brand new business that really was a hobby that landed to now Escort before Flex Escort Academy.

So I didn't know what I was doing. I had to get better. So I think it was more learning that if I really want to be taken serious in this space as a coach. I have to get better as a coach, one. And then, what [00:40:00] is my approach? I know what it means to be selfish. Cause, in a way, you gotta be that way. To do the things I've done in life, to be honest with you, there's a selfish element to Gatorade Player of the Year score 30 points a game, go to Indiana.

That's a, there's a selfish component to it, but then what's the team side of it, right? Now, there's a selfless side, too. And that selfless side to me is learning contentment, not complacency. You have to learn to be where you're at before you want to grow to where you want to go to. Staying still, right, being used to grow and develop, process, learn these techniques.

Struggle with these techniques. Now these techniques are a little easier. Now I can stand on it. I can be accountable to it. Okay? You know, but we're talking about 10 plus years of heartache and pain. Success up and down. Now you have a steady understanding and a [00:41:00] steady base to now impart. Now let's also talk about this last piece.

My statement. Because it's really not about my academy. And I say this because of this. Where we stand on is this. What I tell players is, it's for me to teach you premium individual skills that transfer to universal team concepts in the sport of basketball, that fit your coach's playbook, not mine. You come to somebody like me to be an additional resource, to break down coach talk, to give voter confidence, to say, hey, it may not be good to talk to coach during the game, or 24 hours after the game.

How about we ask coach questions? Don't ask about playing time. Hey coach, I know we're getting ready to play X, Y, Z, and I know I'm on the scouting team, coach, how can I help, uh, Corey, uh, guard so and so, that really good player on the [00:42:00] other team? Coach, can I be that scout team? How can I ask these engaging questions to break down that barrier of always, okay, that sounded like a question the parent asked him to tell me and I'm already trying to avoid the kid from breaking the kid's heart, if that makes any sense.

So I'm really trying to give the, I'm trying to give my players a different approach to really understand. It's not about your hard skills or robotic skills, it's your soft skills. That's your confidence, right? That's your resiliency, right? That's your grit, that's your persistence. How can you find your voice, right?

How can you have a championship mind by having a positive self image no matter what? And then speak up for yourself. So that, those are the things that we're doing. And I make sure that the players know it's about me helping you understand your coach's playbook. What do you do? Let's work on the skills and we help you build it up and let's get to the components and pieces of part hold method is what it's called, right?

Breakdown part of what you do hold. So then when you get back, [00:43:00] you have a better understanding. You can get around. You're a real coach, high school coach.

Ross Romano: Right. Yeah. And by definition, right, to be a contributor to a team, there are, there's no one way to do that. There's a lot of different ways. There's, it requires a lot of different types of players and contributors and skills and folks and understanding who am I, how do I fit in? How can I best fulfill my potential and contribute is, It's a person.

There's a part of that's a personal journey, right? And thinking it's not about I need to be better than this person or that. It's what are the things that I do. And and that's another thing, of course, that that players can learn by looking at Those who have been successful at different levels and seeing how a lot of times the most durable valuable careers are the guys that you know, that do all the little things, right?

It's not the quote unquote best player, but it's the person who every team [00:44:00] has a place for that guy because they do the things that need to be done that a lot of other guys don't do.

CharlieMiller: Well, it's majoring. Yeah, it's learning how to major the minor things, but you've got to create space for that. Right. And the comparison book, it's everybody. And I'm always listening out for when I hear players say, Hey, I'm better than that player. And he's on the a team went on to be in like, okay.

I don't quote unquote call somebody out to say, Hey, don't do that. Hey, what makes you think that player is not better than you, or what did that player is doing every day? This is more so a reflection, right? I mean, I'm a big mirror. I'm a six, seven mirror, right? Before I start telling you what you're doing wrong, I'm coaching little Charlie.

I've been there before. I know when I say, Hey, that person is better. Okay. Would you say that in that person's face? Not trying to be confrontational. No, you wouldn't. So let's, so don't bring that to me. I'm not going to [00:45:00] feel sympathy. I'm not, I want to teach you empathy. I'm going to teach you now how to be passionate about, how about you just focus on the things you can control?

Your effort, your attitude, your enthusiasm, your words, right? Your manners, your respect, right? That's what you can. You can't control the coach. Ask if you feel you're better than. Boldly state that. Coach, I'm better than that player. I can't do that. Well, don't come to me with it.

Ross Romano: Right,

CharlieMiller: Don't.

Because I'm not going to say, I'm not going to add fuel to the fire. Let's look at this, but it's an acceptance. The first step for me is acceptance. Accountability, yes, but you have to accept that role of accountability.

Ross Romano: right.

CharlieMiller: You have to accept responsibility. And it's not necessarily the accountability or responsibility, it's two words.

Responsibility. That's to me the best ability. It's, are you reactionary? Everything's always a comparison. Everything's always firing brimstone or, hey, can I look at this in a [00:46:00] different way? Right? It's, can you keep a positive self image about what you're doing? So what? You're on the B team.

How about you dominate and have them put you on the A team? Make it fair, right? How about you show through actions? Do your part, right? So so over time, there's a boldness I have to it with again, a respectful way of doing it, of just sharing with players, let's if you do what you have to do, and you learn what I'm going to talk about coming up shortly, just the law of the vital few, your 20 percent skill set, one of three things you're doing 80 percent of the game.

So you don't have to think about these things. You know, you know where you catch the basketball, as Kobe Bryant would say, can you shoot? That's one solution. Can you go right? That's a second solution. Can you go left? You have three solutions. You said there's many ways. There's many ways to go right and left.

Can you do those things so a [00:47:00] defender can't keep you on one side of the court? So you can recognize if somebody's close, you can go by them. Then that I think will solve 99 percent of your problems and keeping it simple.

Ross Romano: Yeah, there's it's and it's a, it's also a lesson in anything in life, right? That you create value by doing the thing that nobody else is doing and. Often, especially as young people, right, you look at that as being the thing that is so excellent that no nobody else is doing because nobody else can do it and versus there's a lot of things that anybody can do, but nobody does do because they're not focused on it.

They're not giving the effort. And in basketball, it's the things like getting the loose ball. They're always being in the right position. It's the things that makes your opponent say, man, I hate playing against that person because they're frustrating because they're always where they're supposed to be.

And they're always just one step ahead with the hustle and you know, [00:48:00] all those things that again. Anyone could do these things, but most people just aren't focused on them,

CharlieMiller: Well, because it's not a value. It's not a value. It's not value, right? When you're younger you value scoring the basketball. You value the thing that brings you attention. Not wrong, right? Been there, done that. You value You know, the question I always ask why are you come to this basketball camp to learn this, learn that?

No, you learn how to score. Mom and dad, why? To learn how to score, Charlie. It's so funny because the parents like to learn how to score. I want my baby to be the best. I get that. But I'm going to tell you a secret. If your baby learned the things you're talking about, Ross, right? If they're willing, if they're willing and able to do the small things.

The word all is in small. That's where the attention to details is at. Because the small things buy you margin for error. Margin for [00:49:00] error means I don't have to look over the sidelines because I know I don't, I missed that shot. Coach is like, shoot another one. Because you're a rebounding machine. You're a loose ball machine.

You're the first person to practice machine. I'm buying myself through value add. I'm adding value. And that's, and I know a lot of coaches like that, but I don't, I'm not trying to trick you, persuade you, I don't want to, I don't want you buying in, man, buying in, I won't buy it in, what am I selling?

No, it's about you and your career for four years in high school, you decide to move on, which a lot of people don't, not wrong, a lot of people don't, and I try to bring that to light quickly. A lot of people I train have no desire to play at the next level, a very small portion. So the ones that don't, I try to find a way to kind of curtail this in a nice way to say, Hey, think about this.

You are really stuffing your resume. You're really trying to get ready for X, Y, Z. [00:50:00] You, you already said you want to play college basketball, but yet you're so mad upset. You're not getting the playing time in high school, middle school. I'm confused. Which one do you want? Right? If you really want it, you have to put time in it and not time with me time away from you.

We can't just relearn this stuff, right, or reteach. There has to be an accountability. That's where I kind of, like, I'm a little different on that, buying it. If I have to sell you on something, then there's no accountability. You have to accept that one. You have to accept that, right? And if you are feeling pressure, that's a privilege.

That's Coach Nick Saban's words. Pressure is privilege. That means you, you're doing something of a high note. And you want to take that as an honor, and now that should drive your efforts even more.

Ross Romano: you know, yeah, Charlie, so we've covered a lot here today, and there is one other thing I wanted to [00:51:00] touch on before we close, because there's these challenges that are present in modern youth basketball, and I think, um, a lot of which, have been associated with basketball for a long time that you might get into.

But also now those trends have carried into a lot of sports, right? And so coaches parents and athletes that are involved in youth sports, whatever it is, I'm sure are facing a lot of these challenges. So I wanted to get your perspective on what are some of the challenges that have been coming up top of mind for you And what are coaches able to do to address them for themselves and to help their athletes do the same?

CharlieMiller: Well, one of the main challenges I face a lot, from both sides. Because I'll have coaches call me, and ask me questions on how to deal with an irate parent, or a parent that's so consistent with [00:52:00] asking about playing time. And then it's funny, because I hear from a parent or a player, To get coached up on how to talk to coaches who ignore their sons or daughter, right?

So, so there's an interesting mix for me, but I think overall it's communication it's really how to communicate in a way where I may disagree with you, but I don't have to be disrespected. And I think it automatically sometimes goes for disrespect because.

of the challenges that we hear on social media the fights the the rages or whatever it might be. So I think it's one, how first you have to learn to be truthful to yourself first. iT starts with me, it's hard to have a hard line conversation because you feel like you want to, you don't want to break somebody's heart, but you got to think about that.

If that's you, when you want to know the truth, and then from the truth, can we now put together action steps to get to a place or space where we want to [00:53:00] get to? It's communication. I think communication, it's hard now, because we're such an outcome driven society. Not wrong. I mean, I'm outcome driven too, but.

I got a great sign that I know we're not going to see every single day. And I said it, it's a great sign, right? You see that? Something right there.

Ross Romano: yeah. Right.

CharlieMiller: It's that right. It's not having what I, what you want. It's wanting what you have. You said it earlier, it's, here's this skill. If I get this skill, you have five other skills, unique skills, right?

That you're so good at. How can you know, do your best with that? And then kind of go through a filtering process. They say, are those skills do I really need, but I think communication to get back to that point is one of the biggest challenges is learn how to you may disagree, but don't be disrespectful about it.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's that's totally right, and it continues to go back to that concept of, [00:54:00] Knowing, understanding, being who you are, right? As a person, as an individual, as a community member, as a teammate, as an athlete. You know, and this trickles down, of course, everybody's not. Looking at it at the professional level, particularly NBA level. But if you think about even the way that prospects are evaluated in the NBA draft, right?

Maybe the top 10 picks teams are looking for potential star level players. After that, the question really is. Does this player have an NBA skill, right? Is there one thing that they do really well at the level to play at this level? And that can be the same in college, high school, whatever. Is there, what is the one thing that this.

player is really good at elite. And if they can do that, they have a place here, right? And that's part of being realistic with [00:55:00] ourselves and say what's the thing, what's the one thing that I can do or learn to do or train myself to do better than anybody else that I always enabled? And also if I'm not doing that, right, I need to be honest with myself.

And that's, of course, I'm assuming for young athletes where, Having different coaches to work with, different impartial opinions if they're one, if they really want to do it, you have to be open to the honesty to go and say, look, I'm not getting a lot of playing time on my team right now.

What am I missing? Right? Because I can be mad at the coach for not playing me. And it's not that coaches are infallible and they're always perfect, but there's probably something that I'm not showing. My coach, that I'm not doing in practice, whatever the case may be that I need to do a better job of to earn that opportunity and what is that?

And I and and so for, and that's, I think, [00:56:00] again, not exclusive to sports, but where a lot of the challenges. Come in all kinds of areas of modern society is when we're not honest with ourselves, with our children, as a parent et cetera, to say, look. Ultimately, yes, there are certain things that are out of our control, but there's other things that we're accountable for.

And it doesn't serve me to be blind to that or to

CharlieMiller: Right.

Ross Romano: just, right? And it doesn't serve me to try to be what I'm not. It's, it serves me to be the best at what I am.

CharlieMiller: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But and also like to share, it comes down to performance, right? I mean, that's what I mean, a lot of times players you take players that may not play a lot. They don't get that opportunity. So you're doing your best in practice and it becomes down. I don't trust you. I mean, that's really what playing time is about.

Trust. That's just trust. If you know, you gotta think in [00:57:00] a college game, right? Five players is 40 minutes. It's 200 minutes of play, five positions. Players that are trusted, again, my word, I found my words. I say players who've grown the right and earned the right for margin for error, they're going to get the majority of this because the coach knows good or bad what they're going to get.

They kind of know that outcome versus a player they question. A player who's not really trusted in valuable moments. So how do you have a proactive conversation with a seven year old, eight year old, to prepare them for that for life? It was literally today. I'm just thinking about it today. Balance. Today was our theme word.

What's balance? You play all the sports. Yes. You play football. Yeah. Coach, it gets me strong. Yeah. Play volleyball. Yeah. Agility. Balance. Do that to life too. It starts early. I mean, it's like little things like that. Character word was balance today, right? How to have that balance, right? And really at the elite levels, balance.

The balance [00:58:00] becomes, we talked about earlier, Law and the Final Feud. We don't ask Steph Curry to go rebound on the basketball. We don't care for Steph Curry's rebounding. We don't, even though Kevin Grant's 7th defeat, we don't care for rebounding. We want him shooting the basketball. You know who you are because, again, not to take away from being realistic, you know your relevancy.

It fits. You're relevant to what that need is. And you know that need. Right now, the big term in basketball is 3 and D. You shoot three pointers, you play defense. That's typically 90

Ross Romano: Right.

CharlieMiller: percent of the league. The top 10 percent you talked about, the ones that make a gazillion dollars, they have built the margin for error, and we know that, and it's accepted.

So at the younger levels, it's more about understanding, build your skill, understand the why first. What is why you build your skill? Cause and effect. Now learn how to build your skill, how it's processed. That's one step, [00:59:00] two to three. Then it's when, W H E N, the setting. When to win is what I call it. You gotta learn when to make a move to win the advantage, gain, when to win.

What is what we always do? I can go to Google for what? That's what brought me to the podcast, right? What, but it's when, why, and how that is the question. And I think the quality of the questions will always determine the quality answers. If you can continue to find your voice and understand your value, what we talked about, then you can find that balance in life.

You can find those relevancies of the things that you'd be becoming more and more of. Where'd you put your efforts?

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. I think, I don't think I've talked about this much on this. Podcast, but it's definitely has come up in you know, we've talked about students and education and teachers and the con same concepts around one of the things that is, I often because of the focus on and sometimes focus on that, that, well-rounded [01:00:00] means that every area, right, when GPA being the average and all those kind of things that. the majority of time ends up getting spent on the areas of relative weakness,

CharlieMiller: Yep. Oh,

Ross Romano: versus the areas of relative strength.

CharlieMiller: Come on. Come on.

Ross Romano: way to kind of diminish that Desire and love of learning the same way. It could be the same to diminish that desire of playing a sport to say, okay, you're really good at these two things.

So you don't need to work on them anymore. Now we're going to spend all our time trying to get you to be good. And versus saying, okay, yes, I mean, there's weaknesses that sometimes need to be strengthened, but at the same time, there's also no limit to how good you can be at the things you're good at.

Whether that's science and math or whether that's shooting and rebounding, right, there's no it's not, okay, you've already reached 100% you're a perfect shooter, you've never missed a shot, we don't need to practice shooting anymore, we need to practice [01:01:00] this other thing, or whether it's another sport where like, I remember in my own experience, I had a a time where a baseball team, we got a new coach, and he came in, and he saw I'm 6'5 and he said, look, You look, you got, you could, you should be a pitcher.

You're 6'5 And I'm like, I'm really not a pitcher. I'm more of a hitter. And really tried to make it into a pitcher. And it just kind of diminished my interest because I know that this is not what I am. This is not what I'm good at. Right.

CharlieMiller: Yeah. Yeah. No. Right on. Right on. Right on. That's the spots systems that we have created at Attack Basketball and the spots systems are blind, blurry, and bright. Blind spots. You don't know what you don't know. You keep trying to force Left hand lay, but you're really good at, right? Use your good hand.

No one's gonna put an asterisk if you score a right hand left on the left side. Oh, but my coach wants to. Okay. Here's a question. I always say I'm a surgeon. You know I'm left-handed. Ross, you have a [01:02:00] dog. Hey, you know what, Ross, I'm gonna try to do surgery today on your dog's, right? Leg with my right hand.

You okay with that? No, not at all. So, so, so like this ideology of, I gotta work on my weakness, I gotta keep working on it. No, find what you're really good at and get better at it. Strength finder, come on, right? Find your strength, find your bright spots. That does not mean don't work on your weaknesses, but you know your weaknesses take a lot of mental energy and effort to produce.

So you want to find, eat the frog, Mark Twain, eat the frog. What Do the worst of first. If you really want to work on your weaknesses, do that in the beginning. So when you're tired, you can go shoot cause you know that's your thing. You can go sleep and shoot. You can do those bright spot things. You don't need the motivational inspiration.

So it's like really helping a player understand that, but it's when you get to know them as a person. [01:03:00] You know, I mean it's really this simple. This happened to my now seven year old. We had a counselor help us with our son. He was throwing big temper tantrums, and we were, and she helped us realize it's always on Wednesday when his day was stacked.

We didn't, I didn't even think twice about that. Okay, so here it is, we're trying to get him to do things at four or five, but his day is, after school or whatever, his day is stacked. Hour of this, hour of that, and he's coming home tired, and we're like, we don't want to hear it. Oh, we see it. So for me, You gotta find your worst day of the week, and in your worst day of the week, you probably want to do the things you're really good at, and you gotta think twice about it.

Ross Romano: Yeah.

CharlieMiller: So, so, easier said than done, but these things have come over time, but it's not a sale, because I'm not trying to sell it, but you gotta find the bright spots. In the classroom, what are your bright [01:04:00] spots? Right? You know, what are you not good at? Go get all the help you can get and it's okay to look out. But learn how to teach also. You know, don't hurt as a student. Because when you learn how to teach, you learn things twice.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Absolutely. It's a Charlie. It's been, I mean, total pleasure to have you on the show. I'm sure our listeners feel the same and we're going to put the links below to the attack basketball Academy, to the YouTube channel, social media. There's some courses online, but yeah, where would you like to direct our listeners?

What's, what are some of the things they should check out to learn more?

CharlieMiller: fIrst, our website attackvball. com. First place to go to, a lot of things that Ross mentioned earlier you can go check out. Second place is our YouTube page. And it's a, you can go YouTube and I want to make sure I have the right link for you. So I want to tell you something wrong.

So on YouTube, it is at attack B ball. So it's the at sign [01:05:00] A T A C K B A L at attack B ball. And right now to date, we have over. 809 videos, 809 videos. And you can go, if you want to go to the playlist can give you categories, mindset categories, ball handling categories. So really breaking down the bunkers of skills to tactics strategies, team concepts.

So over 809 videos, and then we have also our courses, you mentioned our courses that are paid premium courses that. Really give you the details of now a calendar the YouTube is great to kind of give you the free stuff to kind of teach you the how, when, and why but the, a coursework, the eight week coursework that studies suggest that when you do things, it's not 30 days, it's eight weeks.

Right. And we have actually courses that are color coordinated to help you kind of guide you through ball handling, finishing, shooting over 150 plus drills. Thank you. Thank you. With our training vote at [01:06:00] exercise as well. So, that is our Podia site. And I want to make sure I give that to you directly as well.

And I want to give you that direct site. lEt me find it real quick. So, I'm on target and on time. Podia, Virtual Training Vote. It is Courses, the word Courses, C O U R S E S, attack. A T A C K B A L L. com, courses. attackbball. com. You can find all our courses for our vertical jump training to our training vault.

Again, it has over 130 videos, 10 different skill sets.

Ross Romano: Excellent. Yeah. Listeners will put all those links below. There's a variety of different online courses there on the site. Very affordable. You know, I browsed through there earlier again with the YouTube channel. Of course, if you coach basketball, you have a son or daughter that plays basketball a lot on there, but also some stuff on mindset and mentality that could be helpful, [01:07:00] Instagram, LinkedIn links.

So we'll put all that below. Check out. You know, any and all resources that are helpful to you and please do stick around here, subscribe to Sideline Sessions, hear the rest of our fall season. We're going to keep bringing you a lot more conversations with coaches from all across the landscape.

Also, visit bepodcast. network to learn about all of our other shows. Charlie Miller, it's been such a pleasure to have you on the show.

CharlieMiller: Thank you, Ross. I appreciate it so much.