Sideline Sessions

Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in everyone. You are listening to Sideline Sessions here on the be podcast network. This one is almost a spring training sessions here as we are getting close at the time of this recording, [00:01:00] getting close to Major League Baseball spring training. And by the time you hear this will be probably in the thick of it or even just after the start of the season here. So perfect timing to be talking baseball with my guest, Dan O'Connor, also known as Doc. Doc is the Major League Video and Advanced Information Assistant Coordinator with Major League Baseball, St. Louis Cardinals.

Before joining the Cardinals organization, he worked in a variety of baseball operations and player development roles with the New York Yankees, in addition to a number of other positions in the game of baseball. Doc, welcome to the show.

Dan O'Connor: Thanks for us for having me. I'm really excited to be here.

Ross Romano: Yeah, it's so great to have you here and Talk about your journey, your role, what you're working on now, a lot of things that certainly relate to working with kind of young and developing athletes. Right. And in addition to some who have sort of reached the pinnacle of their sport, but a lot of great perspectives there for our listeners.

And we'd love to start. I gave that brief intro, but [00:02:00] Just having you fill in some more of the details about your journey through the game so far what are some of those different roles that you've filled along the way and within that specifically those early steps of getting started, getting a foothold in a difficult industry, right?

Like working toward really to the point when you got a sense of, Your fit the types of roles that where you really were able to find the best matches. Right? So, yeah. Can you talk us through that a little bit?

Dan O'Connor: Yeah, absolutely. So started off, I was a sport management major at university of Illinois in Champaign, and I knew I always wanted to work in baseball, but I didn't really have a grasp of how complex it could be to get into the industry. So I started out, did a marketing internship with the Arizona Diamondbacks to get my foot in the door and it was needed to graduate and that was an awesome experience.

But from there is when I realized to get into the baseball [00:03:00] operations side of the sport, which is scouting, player development, player acquisition, the stuff outside of the ticket sales, marketing and the business side of it. I really needed to start building a base with people on the baseball upside, and that's where met.

One of the more impactful people in my career was Roland Hemond. who's since passed, but he was done incredible things in the game of baseball, including starting the Arizona fall league, which is what brought you and I together Ross where we met working together in 2012. And that was my first baseball ops internship.

And it was really cool just to get to work with the different teams that we had. And we ended up having some great players on our. Phoenix Desert Dogs team, MVP and Christian Yelich, J. T. O'Reilly Muto and a bunch of guys. And so that gave me the first pace and made me realize something I wanted to stick with, even though the [00:04:00] hours can be really demanding and it's hard to kind of narrow down like a area in the country to live in.

A lot of future moving was ahead. Which brought me to the Dodgers and their minor league video. And then from there moved to move down to the Yankees. The following year did a internship in New York, and that's kind of where I got to do more of the baseball ops stuff. Like we got to do simulations of.

Arbitration, pre agent projections, helping out with the advanced scouting reports for the coaches, things like that. So that was really fun too. But you know, still in the internship route. And it wasn't until the next year where I finally found my more true footing in the game when they made their minor league video positions full time.

And so I went back into the minor league video. world where I was for six more years with the Yankees and right of stops. The first one was in [00:05:00] Scranton and that was a special team. We had Aaron Judge was called up to us around june of that year, just before the futures game. And now he is an incredible person and still is to this day hasn't changed.

Even after all of his success and then was bouncing around the minor leagues from there to down in Tampa at their facility. In Staten Island back to Scranton and then two years in the Dominican and and then now to the present day, starting back in 2021 is when I joined the Cardinals in a major league video role, which has a heavy emphasis and advanced information to so that was really exciting after the grind of all those years and uncertainty with internships or, like I said, even when I was full time, constantly moving to new cities.

And affiliates. It's been really exciting to get to this point now in St. Louis. (ad here)

Ross Romano: I don't know even how to describe to [00:06:00] our listeners. You know, you mentioned. And I'm trying to make a like describe a parallel for like what he meant to baseball in Arizona. He was like the guy, right? Like everybody's mentor, the person that everybody looked up to.

And yeah, off the top of my head, I'm failing to come up with a comparison. But you know, I think probably a lot of our listeners could envision somebody like that in the program where they are the league, where it's like, who's that that person that was kind of came ahead, but continue to return and give back and give advice.

Right. And yeah. Everybody needs those kind of people around to continue to cultivate that the next generation and have the foresight to create those opportunities. And you know, it's great that you referenced that as part of the story there. And and something that I'm sure listeners would have picked up from that is even [00:07:00] over a relatively short number of years there.

A lot of stops, a lot of things packed in there because it really takes that time to get to the point of. Understanding really where it's all going. Right. And what is that there's the small breaks and then the big, the bigger break. Right. And then hopefully the bigger break after that.

You know, what was that the process like of really the learning process. Right. And as you were going through those steps, you were, Yeah. Taking some stock of what seemed to be working, like, what were the things you were getting better at what were the opportunities, right? The places to say, okay, maybe if I can position myself here or get really good at this thing, like, this seems to be a place where there's a need or where but I think it's.

It's something for, like, a lot of people to learn as they're working toward whatever their overall objective [00:08:00] is there's a certain part of making your place, another part of finding your place, right, but of, like, really consistently being attuned to that and figuring out, like, what are the areas where my skills are matching up, where you're picking up new skills You know, I think even part of it, I think you've done like language learning, right?

There's a lot of stuff there, but we'd love to hear your take on that kind of that continuous learning, growth, development, skill building, right? And continuing to kind of make yourself valuable and in a variety of roles.

Dan O'Connor: Yeah, definitely. So just within the video realm, like understanding where I am in the organizational totem pole it's definitely lower the with the priority being the players, because that's obviously what leads to the wins on the field. And so we want to be there for them. So with me, a lot of the early steps, when I was starting out [00:09:00] was figuring out kind of want to realize I need to be more of a fly on the wall.

And like, We have two ears and one mouth. Listen, double, then you speak, and just continue to intake information as much as I could. And a big thing you hear in baseball is the term feel. That's like, if somebody says you have no feel, that's almost like one of the biggest disses. But also, like, saying you have feel is a big compliment.

And feel means just How you incorporate into the clubhouse and other people like what are you saying or not saying you just don't want to stand out and early on my career since I, I grew late so I didn't play baseball as. nearly as high of a level as I planned to. I definitely had growing and field to figure out.

And and a lot of that just came from taking a step back and seeing how the people are respected the most in the baseball ops world were behaving and trying to learn from that. And then as I built their trust, [00:10:00] trying to get one on one meetings to just get advice, different things that they You know, which they had done differently or which they did.

And one of the points you did pick up on was the language learning. The long time Yankee scouting director Damon Oppenheimer recommended just Spanish is like his key skill. And as I alluded to earlier, I did spend two years in the Dominican, but, the way the Dominican is set up and I didn't realize is U.

S. tourism is such a central part. Of their economy, that most of the people there have learned English. So I was going in expecting people just to speak, be speaking Spanish and I had to learn it out of survival, but no, that wasn't the case. So I realized after the off season, my first year there, that.

I'm going to really attack this. I want to start a streak on Duolingo. And I'd noticed the app had really started to improve. They've, they continually putting new additions into that. And actually exactly [00:11:00] on today is my 1900th day on the app. So it's been really cool to. Not only just see the progress, but also have other friends in baseball that are on there too, and it's very collaborative.

You can see each other's streaks and team up and all sorts of gamesmanship things to keep you hooked on the app and cheering your friends on. So that's kind of the separator skill that I've leaned into the most, but just separation is like. Such a key thing to hone in on any sport you're at, because as we talked about earlier it's such a competitive industry.

So there's hundreds, thousands of resumes being sent in on any of these job applications. So the more you can have like a specialty, unique skill. The better chance you will have to get into the industry or advance. So, outside of just the experience itself. And like I said, that's where I've built the field.

Something like Spanish, but also [00:12:00] now the the video and technology aspects. Of baseball or some of the other separators, but a lot of that too you just need the opportunity to be able to learn in the first place. Cause a lot of this isn't just like publicly available, like all pretty much all but two video departments at the major league level use bats for like inputting video and data into these games.

And, but it's not like just something where you could be out and about and be like, Oh, I'm going to learn bats. It's just you need the team to. How are you as an intern? And that's where you learn it and see how it goes from there.

Ross Romano: So, vocabulary, grammar, pronunciation on those domains where you are right now on a 20 to 80 scale on your Spanish,

Dan O'Connor: Oh, vocabulary. I would say is 60. The hardest part for me is listening especially. Dominican Spanish, they call it machine gun Spanish because they're just like so fast and [00:13:00] cutting things that at the starter ends of words. So, like, different variations of Spanish, so I can, my listening is better on, but you know, there's still definitely way to go, but because it's tough, not like having the full immersion, people say that's how you truly learn a language, but.

Ross Romano: you know,

Dan O'Connor: Duolingo has been good overall. So yeah, all things mixed in, I would say 55 overall. So it's, it'll

Ross Romano: profile as a starter. Okay, excellent. So let's talk about your current. Your current role, what are the most important parts of your job right now? What are the things you're really focused on?

Dan O'Connor: So, coming up with spring training here the big role there is the video aspect of it. Cause MLB doesn't have the video setups. It it does its spring training facilities as it does at every. Big League Park, so there's a lot of collaboration with other teams coordinators and we're playing them in terms of like sending angles and getting that out so we can have that internally for our players and coaches to [00:14:00] review.

And as the season goes on, though, and we get into big league games, it the advanced information part of it comes in a lot more. So that's a big emphasis on just seeing what's going on around the league or upcoming opponents or current opponents like. Is somebody hurt and they're going to call up their top prospect?

Are they going to do a bullpen day? And like, what are their tendencies if they do a bullpen day? Like anything like relevant that could make a coach or players job easier is what we're looking for in that realm. And then just we do like the replay aspect. My boss is. The head guy on that and he travels with the team and does it so that's a lot of fun to a lot of pressure it's kind of a thankless job but it's also really cool to be involved in games like that.

So kind of the baseline of it and then we have like the tech aspects to where that's always. you know, keeps building ever since [00:15:00] probably 2018 is really want when like reps sodas were coming in strong and obviously track man and all these things. So staying fluid in that and learning all the new things that could be going on in the cages or bullpens and how that affects our players and coaches is a big part of it too.

Ross Romano: I would imagine a really critical competency or this is attention to detail. And you know, really. Being able to pick up on things that not necessarily everybody would, but really being attuned to, as you said, like, those small advantages, those small pieces of information that can make a difference.

Is that always been a strength of yours? Is that something you work to develop? Because, I mean, I think that could make all the difference, right? Between being really good at this and kind of average.

Dan O'Connor: Yeah, it's not. I think it's something I've always continued had to work on and proven always [00:16:00] want to be a lifelong learner. I like the quote. As long as you think you're green, you'll grow as soon as you think you're right. You're rotten. And so, yeah, with the attention to detail and just. Like keeping up with that, I'd say the most important thing in this role is just consistency because it's such a long season.

There's so much going on. Everyone's tired throughout it. Like you have to be able to deliver day in, day out. There can't be a day taken off because That could be the day there's a really important piece of information or play in a game that happens. And if you're not mentally in tune with that, it could fall by the wayside.

So I think each year you try and push yourself a little bit more knowing that there's a lot to be expected, but like. be able to like I was saying earlier, day in, day out, bring it. And one of the things we were talking about too, is so like we had kind of made a blueprint of, what we look for as like a video department [00:17:00] years back, and like you said, like precise video and data collection was a big part of it because it's one thing to have the data and video.

But if it's not, if it's not like accurate, then you're going to be given wrong information into like potential evaluation systems. An example would be you're charting a game and it was a called strike, but you chart it as a swing strike. You're making the hitter look worse and the pitcher look better. Examples like that can kind of show like just one play, one player, one pitch in a game, how like it could like change the narrative.

Ross Romano: Yeah. How much of the, I mean, the role, a big part of it is of course you picking up on the insights and the Intel and then communicating that to you know, to the other people who need to put it into use is there an element of working with, whether it's coaches, players other folks in the organization to, I guess, Help [00:18:00] them understand how to use that information.

What to how to tune into you know, how those things are beneficial to them. Like, is it always obvious or is there certain aspects? And then also, like, even going back to your roles in the minor leagues too, right? When you're working with. Players who are working to get to the next level and that information is really crucial.

It could make the difference between having a hot streak it can really propel your career forward or struggling a little bit and it might not even last that much longer, right? It really is high stakes that I, how much of that is, I mean, not only the. job you're doing to serve them by picking up on the right things and then getting them that information, but also it's not going to do them much good if they're not like really I guess understanding the value of it, putting it into action, paying attention to it.

And you know, I'm sure there's [00:19:00] a variety of perspectives on that. But for those who are really, of course, looking to make the most and then to perform at their best, there's an education process, I'm sure for like how these things can help and what it is, especially with the technology continue to evolve, right?

I'm sure there's different stats and insights and metrics and things that you have now that you didn't have five years ago. And so it's like, what even is this? Right? And, because people hadn't heard of it before.

Dan O'Connor: Yeah. So in terms of like the technology and teaching and information, I think the best way to approach it is to curtail the experience to the individual. I think for a little bit there, sports was getting a little too cookie cutter. Potentially were. Like people wanted everyone and their bodies to move the same way, whether there's a swing, they wanted launch angle and the whole thing, but obviously bodies move differently.

Minds work differently. We learn different ways. So I [00:20:00] think a lot of how we present it is it comes after you build the relationships with the guys and. That's where the emotional intelligence is such a big part of working in a clubhouse with the guys and that ties into the feel aspect we talked about earlier, just knowing some guys are just not going to want any information, like very little video, things like that.

They just they want to plug and play and. You know, from somebody who works in that field and can provide that, it can be a little frustrating, but at the same time, because you know the benefits it can provide, but like, you have to be flexible with the different personality types you're dealing with. But the players that do want it you have to be careful in the presentation, especially at the early levels.

So, kind of how some organizations do it is when players are in rookie ball. They kind of limit the access to video. They might not have video in the clubhouses like during the games [00:21:00] or in situations like that, just so the player can work through the, just the initial aspects of getting used to the game, the pro level, but as they go further up, they get more information, whether it's video or statistics, things like that.

But I think that's going to start to go away now, though, as we've seen, like. The young players in today's game, they've grown up with StatCast and all that, so they want this and that's really exciting. So you see it more pushback in some of the older, more old school players. So that's where just adjusting to that.

But as a professional too, in working with the teams, you have to be able to see the trends and differences coming in the different age levels of players or wherever the differences in opinion are coming from. (ad here)

Ross Romano: What do players. by, by making use of video, just in a broad sense. I mean, like it is something that has come up from time to time on the show here, just talking to coaches and especially talking about things that if I [00:22:00] think about things, I didn't really think that much about when I was playing sports and then understood later, or the. I what the, particularly if we're talking about, say, like a high school athlete, right? And what their typical level of, focus on that would be or under understanding of, like. The importance of that being just as critical as other elements of preparation as practice as physical preparation is playing the game like the things you there's things you can only improve at and pick up on by doing them right by getting the reps by practicing strength, training, conditioning, et cetera.

But there are other things that you really can only get the insights by seeing it in that. And sometimes that's watching. Other athletes who do things really well, and sometimes it's watching yourself and saying, like, is what I'm doing what I think I'm doing what I'm actually doing. Right.

Or when this isn't [00:23:00] quite working, like, what's the mechanical thing? Or what's the area where I'm struggling to get the right feel of this? But they're kind of, they're different elements of preparation. Right. But I think as you said, a lot of the young guys now are kind of used to it, but I think there's like different ages and not exclusive to just baseball like across all sports Where there's like certain things that you can Really only quite get from that Can't be replaced by any other type of preparation

Dan O'Connor: Yeah so starting out with. I would say the early stages of sport and in youth sports just skill acquisition in video is a huge thing. There's been studies done to show that a lot of times you learn better from even just watching. And so, and there's, we've. Found multiple examples now of players like Giannis Antetokounmpo and other guys who've talked about YouTube was like such a big coach for them like watching Kobe Bryant video growing up and just kind of seeing how [00:24:00] their body moved and their actions and then applying that subconsciously and the book The Inner Game of Tennis.

Talked about that a lot too, is like coaches just letting the athletes do the learning and communicate with them, like what they're feeling and difference, because a lot of times if you're just telling somebody what to do, they're going to think they're doing it but it's not going to click the same, but then, so yeah, watching others in video, like early is big, but then as you get older and to more of the professional level.

The fine tuning aspect is a huge part of it is especially now with high frame rate video. It can break down things that we've never had noticed before. Just the simplest movement in a pitching road, pitching action or hitting action. And a slight adjustment there could be what gets a player out of a slump.

But a lot of times it could just be something basic too. One of my good friends from a previous team, he's now assistant GM with the Rangers, Cole [00:25:00] Figueroa. Anytime, he didn't come to the video room a lot, but anytime he did, He was looking at his leg lift in his swing. Cause that really based his timing.

So if he felt like he was late on a fastball, a lot of times he was getting his leg down too late. So everyone does it differently. But just the psychology aspect of being in the video room has been really. Really interesting, too, because I think you can take a lot from players who are regulars in a video room in any sport because it shows to me not only do they want to get better.

But they're not afraid of failure, because, especially a sport like baseball, as everyone knows, you're, as a hitter, you're failing more than you're succeeding, and it's these guys that, alright, they're coming in regardless, good or bad result, like, they want to see the result and bring an Aaron Judge back in, he was the guy that, he was always in the room, Paul Gouldschmidt is another guy that's always there, another MVP, [00:26:00] so, everyone, yeah, uses video in different ways, per se, some guys, They're in a slump.

They want the Dig Me video of when they're at their hottest time in their career, just to kind of channel back to that. There's yeah, there's it's all over the map.

Ross Romano: Yeah, it does seem like a lot of the things that can really be beneficial or kind of the, especially when you're kind of. You know, working on developing something as a team or learning a new skill is, there's sort of fundamentals like, and kind of physical fundamentals, but like mental fundamentals.

One thing I always think about, like, in basketball is like setting a trap, right? And I was like, when we were just did this in practice, I didn't really like get what we were doing. Trying to do, or like what the difference was between doing it right and doing it wrong. And then it's something like when you see it, like when you see the difference of it done, right versus done wrong, like on a video, or you're watching a game or something, it's like, oh now I get it.

Now I get [00:27:00] why it's important to lock feet on this, right. Something that kind of, when you're just told, or you're just kind of doing it in practice, you're like, why is this important? Or this isn't And I would think some things in baseball could even be something like, just as far as like broader video right now, positioning, or being in the right place on a, as the cutoff man, right?

Stuff where it's like, okay, what's the difference between being here and then 10 feet that direction? And, oh, now I'm seeing like, I wasn't where I was supposed to be. And now this is how it caused this problem. And you know, in addition, of course, to swings and, Yeah. Of course, getting the right feel for like, I'm feeling like I'm in the wrong place in the box or I'm a little late on my and.

It's all so much of that stuff is happening in split seconds that what you kind of feel while it's happening is it's not necessarily reliable in the sense that it might be exactly what's happening, but it does matter. Because whatever you think is happening, like. Is happening in a sense, right?

Like if you feel uncomfortable, you feel like you're just [00:28:00] not quite right you're going to struggle to have success, even if the thing that feels off isn't exactly the thing, right? That's why it's so important to get that insight and to say, okay, I need to make this adjustment. I think that certainly gets back to your point of, like, when I'm in a slump, I want to just see the video of when I was doing well.

Part of it is to see what I was doing when I was succeeding. Part of it is just a reminder, like, I can do that. Like that was me too. And and that makes a big difference. Like that, just that mental part of that confidence you know, having the vibe shift to get yourself out of struggling.

Dan O'Connor: Yeah, hitting is the hardest thing to do in sports. And if you're not fully there and invested as a hitter mentally, like you, you have no shot. And so you'll see the hitters go through these. peaks and valleys throughout the season and the key is to get out of those valleys as quickly as you can.

Like you said, those confidence boosting videos can do it. And that was a good point too. You know, I'd been mainly focusing on the hitting and [00:29:00] pitching aspect of video, but you bringing up the defense and base running is a huge area of it, especially the time replay. I mean, now everything is magnified and it's you split second decisions.

And so. Where you're tagging a runner or where you're tagging a base as the runner, but could decide whether you're safer out on the play at first or any of the bases. And that could swing a game or a secondary lead if your secondary is not good enough and a guy is able to get you. or somewhere else that could decide a game too.

So, that's where you really see over the course of a season, just those little things add up with so many games and so many plays and video can really help the coaches and players hone in on that. And the coaches do a really good job of after each game kind of highlighting certain plays that do stand out that we could do better, whether it's us or the opponent.

And so then the guys can work on that because [00:30:00] it's definitely a continual development process, even once you're a big league player.

Ross Romano: You know, what do you think is the thing that you have improved at the most, like, over the past several years, as you've gained more experience, been in a variety of roles, but just done it more, right? Done more, had more reps. Seeing things in action with more athletes have more frames of reference, right?

Seeing how things have played out for guys over the course of years things that are impossible to have that perspective on. When you have less experience and to have, I'm sure the confidence to trust what you're seeing, because you've seen it before and you've seen the results of it.

Right. But yeah, what do you feel like is the thing you've kind of grown at the most?

Dan O'Connor: So I think it's just more like a general behavior. Rather than a skilled work and it ties into confidence like you're saying is just a [00:31:00] calmness. And I know that could seem kind of vague or general, but like I think it plays a big role within baseball because I said, it's hectic as things can get. You need the trust of players for them and coaches for them to want to come to you for stuff.

And so if you're. If you're not coming across as calm or confident, like you're not going to have the audience to pass along the information that the organization wants or things like that. And so, and a lot of that just comes from, like you said, the day in day out grind of learning and seeing how it's done.

So, and different bosses I've learned different things from my current boss has been a video coordinator since 92. And if. I already wake up tomorrow and somebody texted me that Chad was a bench coach. I went to bed and I he's such a encyclopedia of baseball knowledge from the coaching side and the skill side of that.

So just being able to watch games alongside him throughout the years has [00:32:00] really taught me a lot. And in the player evaluation side of it and the coaching mechanics side of it, and that's areas I need to keep growing in, but like, that's part of the development and plan for me personally. So, but yeah, I think just growing within that, because in the calmness and confidence, because as we mentioned before, there's, you're around some big personalities.

Some really successful players, and they know that their careers are a finite item. It's not like a normal career where you could take it as long as you want. Once father time is undefeated, once your body starts to slow down, there goes your professional athlete days. So they don't want to just go to anybody.

For their information that can affect their career. So you have to definitely develop that trust with them.

Ross Romano: Yeah, you have to be confident and correct and humble and not it's that it's not about you. It's about them. And it's about I can't take it [00:33:00] personally, whether or not there's trust in my advice. Like, I have to earn that. And. Like part of it, and I definitely have the confidence to, I need to have the confidence to communicate it and to say what I'm seeing and to not doubt myself, but also I like have to be hitting the mark with it.

Like if you're confident, but you're consistently like, giving them bad info, then they're not going to have a lot of trust. So they have to go hand in hand. But so much of that is that experience. I'm sure like, things that. You have the time frame now to see what you were right about or wrong about, right, or what you had an instinct about, about a player ten years ago that you felt like, I have a good sense that this is going to be a successful player because of these things, and now you've seen it's Much of that career play out and say, [00:34:00] okay, yeah, that was right.

Or where was I wrong about that? You know, it's interesting. Yeah, like I think often hear about a lot of things that happened like you referenced back in the fall league right and guys who it was like I have a good sense that this is somebody who's going to more or less maximize their potential because of the way they approach the game like their personality their character like with you know, there's everybody has different levels of Physical ability and talent and, but there's a lot of guys that all have a high level of talent and in a league like that, pretty much everybody there has enough talent to be a major leaguer, like, not necessarily everybody's going to be an all star and MVP.

But pretty much everybody there has enough talent to make it to the major leagues if things break, right? And a big difference in it is who's going to make it happen. Who's going to take it? Who's going to be learning? Who's going to be tuned [00:35:00] in? You know, I, 1 day that always like stood on my memory was there was a couple of days.

He might still be, I don't know. But at the time you know, Rod Carew was working with the commissioner's office and there were a couple of days where he was out there to kind of as an ambassador, right? They did a couple of autograph signings, talk to some of the players. In any case, my, my job for those 2 days was Basically to just be with them like watch the games with them Kind of like try to manage the autograph thing because they were supposed to draw numbers and not just have people rushing him but You know just kind of see what was going on but in one of the one of the clubhouses we went in talked to talk to the players and There were like a You know, a couple of guys in particular that stood out either one who was just like, not paying attention at all.

And it's like, if you're a minor league infielder, and you want to have a great career, you have a guy with 3000 hits over here, like, you might want to hear what he's saying. Right. [00:36:00] And then another guy who was willing to step up and ask a question and like a a question from a place of vulnerability.

And it was. Saying like I have a guy here who's been through a lot. I'm going, I'm not going to be afraid to to ask while he's here. Right. And, and it just told me something about, okay it's not fully predictive of who's going to be successful, who's not, but I think it says a lot about who is equipped to persevere through those inevitable bad breaks and injury, a demotion you know, a season that doesn't go the way you want it to all of those things and kind of You know, keep on course until you get to where you want to be, or who's going to have a harder time with that.

Right. But those are all things that I mean, you have to wait and see how it plays out in the moment. It's [00:37:00] happening. You think, oh, this is kind of what I think about this. But the more you see things like that, and the more over time you see, okay, yeah, like, this is pretty predictive or whatever. You know, I see what's happening with this guy's swing.

I've seen that before. And now I feel pretty confident to, to speak up on it because there's evidence that, yes, like this is what happened in the past. So it's you know, it's just a, it's a type of role where there, there's no replacement for experience.

Dan O'Connor: Definitely. Cause it's one of those it's humbling when you first get into the sport, because You grow up watching the game your whole life, a fan, and you think you know everything and you get in and you realize nothing you go from thinking you're 99. 9 percent like knowledgeable and then you get in and you're like, all right, well, now I'm in that 0.

01 and I'm the 0. 01 least knowledgeable, like, and so then it's just a lot of emphasis to take advantage of the great people around you in terms of [00:38:00] just listening and hearing what they have to say, because like you said, they've seen what has worked and hasn't. And that's where the whole fly on the wall point comes into is you could rub people the wrong way if you come in just saying exactly what's on your mind, because That people know that they've, you need the experience, you need the reps and the visuals to really grow in this game and become sit near the top of it.

Ross Romano: Yeah. So, doc I know another thing that you've been involved in here and there at least throughout your baseball career, but something that's important to you is some different mental health initiatives, and I would love to hear a bit about that as well.

Dan O'Connor: Yeah so growing up in high school, I had depression, anxiety really bad. It made it really tough to get out of. Sped and just really set me back. And I kind of like just hid that part of me for a while. 'cause there's a lot of stigma in the world of mental health, but it wasn't until 2018 that I realized there's one of me [00:39:00] and it is what it is.

Like, it's a big part of who. Dan O'Connor is or who anybody is that lives with mental health. And once I, I did a social media posts. Once I did that, like my life changed so much for the better. Just to let people know my past with the struggles and it just, yeah, took this weight off me and also just opened the door for so many more authentic conversations.

I had numerous friends and coworkers reach out to me after that for advice or to say, thanks. And just the bonds it's made through people like that is it's define me, I guess, is the most important part of my life. Even this girl I knew from college did a post that she essentially did the post because she saw mine and that was kind of one of those like, okay, I could.

die happy now moments like I was, I did what I was here to accomplish and you know, still think about that a lot to this day. And I think just having that experience and [00:40:00] the emotional intelligence from it has been able to tie in to working with players and coaches because Yeah, it's a tough field, as we've mentioned.

It's the day in, day out grind and the failure and just being able to be open ears to players and give them an authentic person that they know has been through his own struggles. And I wear this Hope for the Day wristband on my wrist every day, too. It says it's OK not to be OK. Have hope just as a reminder.

And also just like as a further prompt to myself to like just to keep it. Because with people struggling, a lot of times they just feel like they're alone in it. And so just letting people know that this is way more common than you realize. And it just seems like the statistics grow each year with the number of people struggling.

So just, yeah, trying to normalize it, de stigmatize it, the

Ross Romano: Yeah. I mean, for folks who. You know, our different shows across the network. [00:41:00] Maybe you do, maybe you don't, but we did a series, at least for a while. It was something I did for a few years, but we did the podcast series for the 1 year same here schools, but partnership with same here, global mental health initiative and many of the kind of ambassadors for that are athletes.

Right? And the concept being like, same here, right? That, that there's Always somebody else who's going through similar struggles and that they are sharing them and having conversations about them and not not feeling alone in that. And it's something that, that we have done that series around, but certainly comes up and it's, and it's when you're in stressful professions, there's things that are due to come up right beyond what already might be going on. So, yeah, I think removing the stigma around that and being attuned to it. And for everybody who's [00:42:00] listening, who. Particularly works with young athletes as a parent to them you know, it's having an awareness of it and it's important doc, we, I mean, we could talk for a long time, but I think, like, we'll try to put a nice capper on this.

I would, I guess, love to tie it together with if you had to. Choose 1 piece of advice for young athletes to be successful. Like, what's 1 thing that from your experience athletes you've worked with the roles you've been in that, you think is a great thing for everybody to do or think about.

Dan O'Connor: biggest takeaway I've. I've learned from working with these premier athletes is just their relationship with failure. You go back and look up some Adam Wainwright interviews. He's so open to talk about some of his worst moments of his career getting cut from the U S team, not having Tony LaRusso's trust early in his [00:43:00] career and just how that shaped them.

And I think. Most of these athletes can and do talk about those times because that's where they grew the most and drew the most inspiration from because they have, they knew they wanted to be great, but they could also accept themselves when they weren't great because everyone's a beginner at some point and nobody's obviously going to be at the top like early on.

So you got to pay your dues. And if you can't acknowledge failure. Then you're eventually going to get stuck in the mud and stop progressing and so to just tie that in with me accepting my own mental health that was something that was holding me back to in terms of confidence and how I played myself.

So, so, yeah, just Really not being afraid of the failure. It's part of anything in life. And the more you can dig into it and learn from it, then it's a positive. And so I like the quote, it's failure is a great teacher, [00:44:00] but a bad companion. So you don't want to obviously have it around all the time, but when it does show up, learn from it and don't keep making the same mistakes.

Ross Romano: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great, that's a great closing thought. It's you know, we talked a little bit before we came on the air alive here that the higher you're aspiring the higher levels you move through and the more successful you are. The more you're guaranteed to fail, right?

I mean, you could use the sport of baseball. If you know, as a hit or fail 10 times, you're in the hall of fame. And that you're going against the best and in order to be the best, you can be, you have to challenge yourself and you have to go out there and you have to really compete if you have to be in challenging positions and inevitably.

Absolutely. You can't be successful every single time, but you have to learn from that, learn what's in your control and what you can do differently. Learn what's out [00:45:00] of your control that you just can't dwell on. You can't have it be your companion as you say. Right? Like, and once you come to that conclusion, like, whatever's in your plan is in your plan.

And okay, this is what we're doing moving forward. But. Thinking about what happened last time is no longer serving you. So it's it's a great thought. And and yeah, for any athlete, even athletes who advance through all the levels, there's like, it's a relatively short career. And so it's best to really make the most of the moments and and to keep moving forward.

So, listeners, I hope you've enjoyed this conversation. Clearly, we've gotten into a lot of great topics here and you can go back, listen to previous episodes. We have other episodes centered around the sport of baseball and many others and subscribe to sideline sessions. If you haven't already, if you have, if you're enjoying the show, always appreciate those 5 star Apple reviews.

They help other people to find the show and, [00:46:00] sign You know, find episodes that are going to benefit them as well. So we hope you'll do that. We hope you'll be back next week for our next episode. And I'd like to thank you again, Dan "Doc" O'Connor for being here.

Dan O'Connor: Appreciate it, Ross. It was a great time.